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Giants are fucked.

Hello, I'm making this post to tell you why giants need a buff. I played live for along time, and all of my time are on melee humans and giants. On live it's no secret that humans have almost always held the edge in melee (not lance) combat. Any time dual wield is even slightly better than 2-handed weapons humans skyrocket. And when 2-handed weapons are in vogue, humans are able to keep pace with giants easily. I'm of the opinion that giants should be beyond stronger in melee than any other race. Giants are the only race to lose an entire skillset (until lances come along) and our compensation is nothing.

According to the wiki, humans on this patch get 248 strength. Giants get 256. Giants give up archery for 8 strength. Giants get charge with no shield, but since humans have access to reliable ranged abilities and bunshin this bonus isn't very strong. Humans who are pure melee can just carry a shield in the offhand as well. Giants can use 2-handed swords in 1 hand with their shield, but defenses have never mattered in this game and 2-handed weapons suck compared to duel wielding. Meanwhile, every giant racial ability sucks. Wind Guard is super niche, Taunt is super niche, Stomp is completely worthless, and Throwing attack is beyond trash. Final Hit is one of the best abilities in the game, and even Final Shot has uses. When do you use Wind Guard outside of sulfur spider for 1 wave? Taunt is just a shitty rafting ability. Stomp is just a shitty windmill. Throwing attack is 25 seconds. Giant's abilities suck, but so do their weapon choices.

First and foremost I'm of the opinion that dual wielding is not fun and crowds out the old damage option of 2-handed weapons. If dual wielding was removed today I'd be happy. However it's not going to be, so here's some math. I'll be using a 300 strength human and a 330 strength giant. I've given giants 30 more strength due to their .25 extra strength per level (adding up to 25 extra at level 100) and the 8 more strength they get from all skills. For humans I'll be using artisan battle swords with 70 strength artisan and for giants I'll be using the warhammer below. I've chosen this warhammer because in my opinion the full max damage warhammer isn't worth losing 20 crit. Some might also choose to go hook carving, but this would have made the damage calculations too human favored. This is my compromise.


Giant warhammer
(84+0(Not bothering with enchants)+132(Strength bonus at 330)+86(Blunt and Combat Master))
(84+84+132+86) is 386 max damage.
versus
Human battlesword
(54+54+176(extra strength from artisan)+64) is 348.
Ha! Humans are weaker! Well, at least if you only take a look at max damage, of course
blunts end up looking favorable. There are 2 other places we should look at.

Min damage.
Giant warhammer
(0+0+110+13) is 123 min damage
versus
Human battlesword
(36+36+146(Rounded down despite it being 146.666~)+34) 252 min damage.
Almost double for humans!

Balance
For balance we will assume 30 base (or 211 dex, which favors humans as they can really
get much more)
The formula from the wiki is
([Max damage - Min Damage]Balance) + Min
So using our numbers above we get
Giant warhammer
([386-123].45)+123 = 241.35
versus
Human battlesword
([348-252].80)+252 = 328.8

This time for 2-handed weapons.
No need to repeat the numbers or explanations above. I'll be using Battle Hammer and Broad Axe (which are both super similar to the point of being the same but just in case) as well as Highlander Claymore.

Battle Hammer (using wiki's type 258 which is what I see the most of)
Max (106+132+56) = 294
Min (12+110+13) = 135
Balance ([294-135].55)+135 = 222.45

Broad Axe (Using 251)
Max (114+131+46) = 289
Min (16+110+23) = 149
Balance ([293-149).77)+149 = 259.88

HLC (285 and 295 are basically the same but I'll be using 295)
Max (105+131+46) = 282
Min (18+110+23) = 151
Balance ([282-151].70)+151 = 242.7

Finally as a bonus 222 Broads.
Max (73+73+120+64) = 330
Min (0+0+100+34) = 134
Balance ([330-134].80)+134 = 290.8

Giants can get bigger numbers, but most of the time humans are pumping out higher dps. Giants throw away archery only to be worse at melee than humans. We get nerfed magic only to be worse at melee than humans.

Now what do we do? Giant weapon buffs are on option and already suggested on the forums. If we buff the numbers to the point they go over it's problem solved. Quick and easy. Mechanical changes could offer giants QoL as well as Significant buffs. However, it is not clear to me what is possible for the dev team to accomplish. From what little I've heard adding new skills is near impossible for them, so making use of existing skills is all I feel comfortable suggesting. Allowing Full Swing out of trans would be a buff (that in all honesty may be overkill). Allowing more skills in Wind Guard is nice QoL. Throwing Attack is universally agreed to be in need of a cooldown buff, but this doesn't change giant melee strength.

If there is anything wrong with the way my math or the formulas are used please don't hesitate to correct me.

Never said they didn't. What I was pointing out was that melee humans have options outside of charge to close distance.


Something many people (including me) cannot take advantage of due to server lag.


Final Hit is more than usable in HM/elite. I've played these levels as a human and final hit speeds up shadow missions immensely.

As for everything else, it'd be easier to do the numbers for it to show. If the way I use balance is wrong please post how you should correctly use it. I didn't bother with ego's because as far as I'm concerned 1 ego weapon shouldn't be the only thing the entire race is good for. I understand how good iron mace ego is but I'd prefer to see numbers before I concede that that alone is enough. That's really it, if the numbers are better please do show them.