Authentic Old-School Mabinogi Experience
Posted at 03-15-17, 05:45 am Link | #41
General Fixes & Events
Well, I believe that the point of max durability being destroyed is due to how skills are trained, and how the majority of stats and damage come. They come from the base character, and in old mabinogi, due to its more player skill focused combat, a weapon is more of a resource than an actual part of your character. Very remniscent of games like Ultima Online, where you make your character and you work on your skills, but if you die, you lose your equipment. The mechanic in itself gives a bit more risk and reward to using a stronger more valuable weapon over a cheaper one like a fluted short sword. You then have to basically choose to use what you feel you can afford to repair or in fact replace. I'm running about 4 different swords right now because I cannot afford to replace my 222 broad with goddess on it, nor can I repair it, but I get along just fine because I made a decision to allow me to get around that fact.
It also allows for life skills to stay relevant after a long period of time. A persons amazing 222 broadsword may get too low and need to be replaced. Meaning hey, look at me and this fresh new broadsword that is x grade and now you want to throw your money at me, giving me a reason to continue building broadswords that are good.
Now for the weapons you can't craft, well, the point about not using what you can't afford to replace ties into this. You'll use that weapon if you feel that it's worth using, plus you have the option of egoing it, which is actually a lot better on this server since we only have special upgrades to 3, and you can also keep your weapon from ever losing dura.
Finally, I just want to bring up the topic of convenience. When bringing up convenience, more than the positive, you also have to consider what is negative. Will something be marginalized or made useless because this convenience option renders it useless. Will people still have a reason to make or buy mp pots if we raise mp regen further, how are skills like mana shield effected by this?
(Disclaimer, I'm not familiar with meditation numbers or inspiration, and the focus of this is not to show my opinion of these suggestions, just what I feel are questions which more people should ask and currently aren't asking.)
100% repairs should be available, the game was designed around them, and they were always in korea/japan afaik (and I think they still are?)
I believe in KR/JP mabi Simon had 100% repair rate for a long time now, and recently they added the option to get 100% repair rates on any NPC by paying extra gold (2x the repair fee of 98% I believe)
https://www.reddit.com/r/Mabinogi/comments/5ucgvz/kr100_repair_rate_update/ Source here
https://www.reddit.com/r/Mabinogi/comments/5ucgvz/kr100_repair_rate_update/ Source here
Posted at 03-15-17, 10:56 am Link | #44
I think, too much emphasis is currently placed on the stats of the weapons. The grade itself, while nice, isn't game changing usually. It's more of, here's a little boost, to show off, or just cuz getting it isn't honestly that big of a deal. Personally, i feel the stats of weapons, or maybe the upgrades for them, should be reworked entirely. But maybe that's a topic for another thread.
_________________________
Discord: Tonkatunk#7079
https://github.com/Tonkatunk/Mabi-Pro-Lazyfae-Mods
_________________________
Discord: Tonkatunk#7079
https://github.com/Tonkatunk/Mabi-Pro-Lazyfae-Mods
post rev. 1 by removedself on 03-16-17, 03:24 am
Posted at 03-16-17, 03:23 am Link | #45
100% repairs should be available, the game was designed around them, and they were always in korea/japan afaik (and I think they still are?)
Designed around them how? Other than 100 percent existing, I'm not sure what they add other than allowing players to hold onto a weapon longer without losing it.
Posted at 03-16-17, 02:14 pm Link | #46
Mana evaporation has GOT to go. It has no place in the game. It does not make sense thematically or balance-wise, based on whether the player is or is not a "Mage".
BALANCE:
Except every other class (aside from Archery) can match current Magic DPS. Every other class including Archery can utilize other weapons with no resource penalty. Every other class can use all of their DPS-intensive skills with their primary equipment.
THEME:
Mana is something that flows around, and through you. You channel mana from your body, though the wand, and into forming magic in front of your face. The wand is just a focus, it is not injecting needles into your hand and suckling out your Mana, or reverse-flowing the element into your body. Mana exits your body, enters the wand, and creates a spell. Mana not used is STILL IN YOUR BODY. Otherwise, when equipping a wand, your mana would be sucked into the wand and you would effectively have zero mana forever because the wand was constantly draining you until you put it down.
Epsilon, whatever tree you're barking up is the wrong one.
BALANCE:
Except every other class (aside from Archery) can match current Magic DPS. Every other class including Archery can utilize other weapons with no resource penalty. Every other class can use all of their DPS-intensive skills with their primary equipment.
THEME:
Mana is something that flows around, and through you. You channel mana from your body, though the wand, and into forming magic in front of your face. The wand is just a focus, it is not injecting needles into your hand and suckling out your Mana, or reverse-flowing the element into your body. Mana exits your body, enters the wand, and creates a spell. Mana not used is STILL IN YOUR BODY. Otherwise, when equipping a wand, your mana would be sucked into the wand and you would effectively have zero mana forever because the wand was constantly draining you until you put it down.
Epsilon, whatever tree you're barking up is the wrong one.
Just what "tree" am I "barking up"? My whole argument has been to implement skills such as Inspiration, to help alleviate the concerns people have expressed regarding MP consumption. And I only wanted to keep mana evaporation so that the skill doesn't get abused, and that I also still believe that a mage should generally only need one of their spells to do enough damage.
I'm not beyond persuasion, if you think that idea in its entirety isn't going to work, tell me why. But so far, I've only seen one person actually acknowledge my idea, everyone else is only calling out my statement on keeping mana evaporation; that isn't going to present a very convincing argument to me.
Pretty sure Trinity staff exists in our current build. Mages can already cast all 3 adv magics without losing all their mana. Wands just need to be brought to our current patch. There's no reason we should have G1 wands with G13 for other classes and weapons.
Posted at 03-16-17, 02:44 pm Link | #47
what's the point of playing in a private server if my 222 broads get chiseled down by some apprentice blacksmith
Posted at 03-16-17, 03:06 pm Link | #48
what's the point of playing in a private server if my 222 broads get chiseled down by some apprentice blacksmith
Now imagine if Broadswords were priced at 40k a pop. That gets crazy expensive right? So you'd switch to like, a Gladius or a battle sword, right? Except those are also 40k a pop now.
Welcome to the mage class. Oh also, unequip your sword and lose your stamina. Don't forget that Stam pots are no longer sold in stores! And, you need a Gladius to use smash, a broad for windmill, and a battle for assault slash. Have nice day.
Pardon my salt lads, Epsilon has *triggered* me.
But yes. Repair system needs work. This is why I suggested the max dura repair option, because then we still have that element of chance that some players desperately cling to, while the players that color-match and minmax don't lose out on the large bags of gold they forked over to finally get their perfect set.
Posted at 03-16-17, 06:34 pm Link | #49
what's the point of playing in a private server if my 222 broads get chiseled down by some apprentice blacksmith
You don't take 222 broadswords to apprentice blacksmiths? 222 broadswords are really good weapons. What's the point of playing the private server that promotes itself under being "Authentic Old-School Mabinogi experience" you ask? Well it's certainly not to experience an easier version of the actual game. In the same way you don't play s4max and hope to play an easier version of s4 league, no you're going to experience what the game was.
what's the point of playing in a private server if my 222 broads get chiseled down by some apprentice blacksmith
Now imagine if Broadswords were priced at 40k a pop. That gets crazy expensive right? So you'd switch to like, a Gladius or a battle sword, right? Except those are also 40k a pop now.
Welcome to the mage class. Oh also, unequip your sword and lose your stamina. Don't forget that Stam pots are no longer sold in stores! And, you need a Gladius to use smash, a broad for windmill, and a battle for assault slash. Have nice day.
Pardon my salt lads, Epsilon has *triggered* me.
But yes. Repair system needs work. This is why I suggested the max dura repair option, because then we still have that element of chance that some players desperately cling to, while the players that color-match and minmax don't lose out on the large bags of gold they forked over to finally get their perfect set.
I'll state the same opinion again, durability does serve a purpose. It keeps weapons as a resource, something to make combat easier, but they aren't forever, which in turn keeps blacksmithing and other life skills purposeful to the same people. And you don't need a good weapon to do significant damage in a game where your stats come mainly from your character.
It also forces you to adapt, sometimes changing your playstyle because hey, you're lacking resources, so you can't necessarily fund your best shit right now, maybe put it in the bank and grab something else. This isn't wow where dungeons and quests turn into gear checks, this is a game where understanding the mechanics will take you much further. Playing smart and adapting instead of pressing rotations and moving out of the fire. This also reinforces the fact that weapons are resources, they don't take long to upgrade, you could potentially have an endgame weapon from the start, but if you can't afford to repair it or replace it, what are you doing?
Now you bring up the example of melee weapons being expensive and having other cheaper options, which magic doesn't
(Though, not sure why you picked gladius or battle swords, because those really aren't the cheap options. Something like fluted shorts or wooden blades make a lot more sense here, but I digress.)
There are other options to fix the magic user weapon costs by adding cheaper and weaker weapons which have weaker upgrade paths as well, or rely on artisans for decent damage, like maxing the upgrades to cc3 instead of 4, and so on. Make a weapon called the basic/flimsy wand of Fire, just reuse the basic fire wand model, neuter the upgrade options, lower the value to make it cheaper to upgrade and repair/use. While the other weapons, stay as they are, giving you the same level of choice as other skillsets have.
This would allow mages to be easier to get into for new players without as much of an understanding of the game, without really hurting the choice and decision making. I mean seriously, what reason do you have for using anything other than the best, when you have no chance of losing the best.
I mean, people have played old mabinogi to endgame relying on daggers, mages should have the same level of diversity. Daggers give you speed and cheaper cost, and while this theoretical flimsy wand can't really effect gameplay except mainly damage due to magic being so linear in it's mechanics, it can still cheaper and more reliable like fluteds and daggers are.
Posted at 03-16-17, 10:25 pm Link | #50
I actually agree with epsiolon in that removing mana evaporation might have unintended consequences, and that maybe there are some underlying problems that might need to be considered first. Granted, i'm not against removing mana evaporation. I just want to look more closely at what the real problem is.
For pure mages, mana evaporation is a pain in that you cannot swap out weapons without either chugging MP potions, or suddenly just not being able to cast spells. For those who wished to dabble in magic, mana evaporation becomes a giant barrier. Bolt and basic heal spells are safe to use, since you won't need a wand, but if you wanted to go any further you're going to have trouble. You wouldn't be able to throw around more powerful spells on the fly without planning ahead for the consequence of switching back to your other weapon, and if you do switch you're going to need to chug a lot of potions if you wanted to continue dabbling in the immediate future.
For the dabblers, mana evaporation sounds rather fair. Bolts and basic heal are all fine to use (though you won't be able to chain cast without a wand), but going beyond that is a big decision. Do you start with your wand out, unleashing a powerful spell before charging in with your sword, thus leaving you without mana for the rest of the fight? Or do you save your powerful spells somewhere down the line, after having used your mana carefully so any powerful spells you unleash won't leave you with a good chunk of mana that you would just dump after switching back to your other weapon?
Keeping mana evaporation around makes it so the higher level spells are for someone who is dedicated to using magic. Without it, we might start coming across dabblers that could possibly even outperform pure mages, saving their spells for when they matter (like Wights) and using their other combat skills to handle everything else.
That being said, Mages need a tune-up somewhere. That's for sure. I'm really liking Cyrene's ideas for magic weapons. More and weaker wand options would allow a steady progression through the magic tree. Mana potions should somehow be purchasable from NPC vendors (10's and 30's, of course), both for newcomers to magic and for veterans so they don't always have to use potion making or buy from other players.
If we're looking for new ideas, maybe we could consider pets in some way? Familiars tend to be a common theme in the fantasy of magic, and since pets are now obtainable through red coins instead of money, everyone has equal access to them. Or maybe a skill that would allow you to draw the mana from an ally into yourself? Players would have to provide consent, and it would likely not be a mid-combat sort of skill, but allies who aren't making use of their mana could give it to their mage who is. Or you could go the other route and have a skill that would allow you to give mana to someone else.
For Meditation, does it not already provide an additional boost to your mana recovery if you're resting? I feel like it should, thematically. You can more easily meditate by sitting in one spot as opposed to walking and running around. If people actually like that idea, it might be interesting to take it another step further, and provide another additional bonus when multiple people are meditating around the same campfire. Could be a neat way to make campfires a good resource to have, though it might also make all-mage parties too highly favored if imbalanced.
For pure mages, mana evaporation is a pain in that you cannot swap out weapons without either chugging MP potions, or suddenly just not being able to cast spells. For those who wished to dabble in magic, mana evaporation becomes a giant barrier. Bolt and basic heal spells are safe to use, since you won't need a wand, but if you wanted to go any further you're going to have trouble. You wouldn't be able to throw around more powerful spells on the fly without planning ahead for the consequence of switching back to your other weapon, and if you do switch you're going to need to chug a lot of potions if you wanted to continue dabbling in the immediate future.
For the dabblers, mana evaporation sounds rather fair. Bolts and basic heal are all fine to use (though you won't be able to chain cast without a wand), but going beyond that is a big decision. Do you start with your wand out, unleashing a powerful spell before charging in with your sword, thus leaving you without mana for the rest of the fight? Or do you save your powerful spells somewhere down the line, after having used your mana carefully so any powerful spells you unleash won't leave you with a good chunk of mana that you would just dump after switching back to your other weapon?
Keeping mana evaporation around makes it so the higher level spells are for someone who is dedicated to using magic. Without it, we might start coming across dabblers that could possibly even outperform pure mages, saving their spells for when they matter (like Wights) and using their other combat skills to handle everything else.
That being said, Mages need a tune-up somewhere. That's for sure. I'm really liking Cyrene's ideas for magic weapons. More and weaker wand options would allow a steady progression through the magic tree. Mana potions should somehow be purchasable from NPC vendors (10's and 30's, of course), both for newcomers to magic and for veterans so they don't always have to use potion making or buy from other players.
If we're looking for new ideas, maybe we could consider pets in some way? Familiars tend to be a common theme in the fantasy of magic, and since pets are now obtainable through red coins instead of money, everyone has equal access to them. Or maybe a skill that would allow you to draw the mana from an ally into yourself? Players would have to provide consent, and it would likely not be a mid-combat sort of skill, but allies who aren't making use of their mana could give it to their mage who is. Or you could go the other route and have a skill that would allow you to give mana to someone else.
For Meditation, does it not already provide an additional boost to your mana recovery if you're resting? I feel like it should, thematically. You can more easily meditate by sitting in one spot as opposed to walking and running around. If people actually like that idea, it might be interesting to take it another step further, and provide another additional bonus when multiple people are meditating around the same campfire. Could be a neat way to make campfires a good resource to have, though it might also make all-mage parties too highly favored if imbalanced.
Posted at 03-17-17, 01:19 am Link | #51
For the dabblers, mana evaporation sounds rather fair. Bolts and basic heal are all fine to use (though you won't be able to chain cast without a wand), but going beyond that is a big decision.
As one who usually plays pure-mage, I'm tempted to hop on hating the dabblers to get it changed for pures, but I need to address this for dabblers. Mana costs are an easy gate for this. Does anything outside of the mage tree even give mana? Intelligence maybe, on Musical Knowledge. With dabblers having an estimated 50-100 mana, I don't see them being able to utilize many higher level spells.
Keeping mana evaporation around makes it so the higher level spells are for someone who is dedicated to using magic. Without it, we might start coming across dabblers that could possibly even outperform pure mages, saving their spells for when they matter (like Wights) and using their other combat skills to handle everything else.
Hybrids are always stronger towards end-game than pures. That's just how it goes. Alchemy and Magic, both would benefit from ranking defense (due to equipping a shield with their wand/cylinder), windmill for when enemies get close, really the only thing you don't necessarily need to dabble in is life or ranged attack as a mage/alchemist. That being said, Alchemists can change cylinders with no downside, and I am certainly vying for them to have an end-game stat rather than leaving them flatlined. Should Stamina-evaporation be implemented if Alchemists get an end game stat? If your answer is no, then magic doesn't need it either.
That being said, Mages need a tune-up somewhere. That's for sure. I'm really liking Cyrene's ideas for magic weapons. More and weaker wand options would allow a steady progression through the magic tree. Mana potions should somehow be purchasable from NPC vendors (10's and 30's, of course), both for newcomers to magic and for veterans so they don't always have to use potion making or buy from other players. These are good options, but if you REALLY want to keep "mana evaporation" as it is, it's completely destructive to PURE mages, which you argued for, and not destructive to DABBLERS, which you argued against, as it takes ALL of your mana other than your Title-related mana and mana boosting items. I'd suggest a flat 50-100 MP drain IF IT MUST EXIST, while equipping another wand could maybe replenish 50-100 of lost MP?
If we're looking for new ideas, maybe we could consider pets in some way? Familiars tend to be a common theme in the fantasy of magic, and since pets are now obtainable through red coins instead of money, everyone has equal access to them. Or maybe a skill that would allow you to draw the mana from an ally into yourself? Players would have to provide consent, and it would likely not be a mid-combat sort of skill, but allies who aren't making use of their mana could give it to their mage who is. Or you could go the other route and have a skill that would allow you to give mana to someone else. What would be the benefit of ranking a skill that allows you to give others your mana? Would it increase your Dex, if you're an archer? Str if you're a warrior? Does it reduce your CP? Why even rank this? Screw our mage man, just let our Alchemist handle it. As for the pets, I'm down for Familiars, I suggested that for Pally/DK active skills instead of Cntrol of Darkness and Not Applicable. But if Familiars become a thing, they'll need to be a skill, separate from pets. Pets need a re-vamp, but we shouldn't be forcing pets to certain classes. Wow, look at my warrior galloping off on his str-boosting horse to the next dungeon room. Meanwhile I'm waiting for my mana-restoration Seal to scoot it's fat posterior in range of me to give me my mana back. I'd suggest something like the mini-pets as Familiars, summonable through a skill, and doesn't take up a summon space so you can still summon your real pet. I'd also make the Familiar you summon RNG the first time, then remain the same familiar every time (unless you purchase a Familiar reset scroll using Fomor Coins). Have them all apply the same bonus to MP regen and whatnot, but aesthetically some are more desirable than others.
As one who usually plays pure-mage, I'm tempted to hop on hating the dabblers to get it changed for pures, but I need to address this for dabblers. Mana costs are an easy gate for this. Does anything outside of the mage tree even give mana? Intelligence maybe, on Musical Knowledge. With dabblers having an estimated 50-100 mana, I don't see them being able to utilize many higher level spells.
Keeping mana evaporation around makes it so the higher level spells are for someone who is dedicated to using magic. Without it, we might start coming across dabblers that could possibly even outperform pure mages, saving their spells for when they matter (like Wights) and using their other combat skills to handle everything else.
Hybrids are always stronger towards end-game than pures. That's just how it goes. Alchemy and Magic, both would benefit from ranking defense (due to equipping a shield with their wand/cylinder), windmill for when enemies get close, really the only thing you don't necessarily need to dabble in is life or ranged attack as a mage/alchemist. That being said, Alchemists can change cylinders with no downside, and I am certainly vying for them to have an end-game stat rather than leaving them flatlined. Should Stamina-evaporation be implemented if Alchemists get an end game stat? If your answer is no, then magic doesn't need it either.
That being said, Mages need a tune-up somewhere. That's for sure. I'm really liking Cyrene's ideas for magic weapons. More and weaker wand options would allow a steady progression through the magic tree. Mana potions should somehow be purchasable from NPC vendors (10's and 30's, of course), both for newcomers to magic and for veterans so they don't always have to use potion making or buy from other players. These are good options, but if you REALLY want to keep "mana evaporation" as it is, it's completely destructive to PURE mages, which you argued for, and not destructive to DABBLERS, which you argued against, as it takes ALL of your mana other than your Title-related mana and mana boosting items. I'd suggest a flat 50-100 MP drain IF IT MUST EXIST, while equipping another wand could maybe replenish 50-100 of lost MP?
If we're looking for new ideas, maybe we could consider pets in some way? Familiars tend to be a common theme in the fantasy of magic, and since pets are now obtainable through red coins instead of money, everyone has equal access to them. Or maybe a skill that would allow you to draw the mana from an ally into yourself? Players would have to provide consent, and it would likely not be a mid-combat sort of skill, but allies who aren't making use of their mana could give it to their mage who is. Or you could go the other route and have a skill that would allow you to give mana to someone else. What would be the benefit of ranking a skill that allows you to give others your mana? Would it increase your Dex, if you're an archer? Str if you're a warrior? Does it reduce your CP? Why even rank this? Screw our mage man, just let our Alchemist handle it. As for the pets, I'm down for Familiars, I suggested that for Pally/DK active skills instead of Cntrol of Darkness and Not Applicable. But if Familiars become a thing, they'll need to be a skill, separate from pets. Pets need a re-vamp, but we shouldn't be forcing pets to certain classes. Wow, look at my warrior galloping off on his str-boosting horse to the next dungeon room. Meanwhile I'm waiting for my mana-restoration Seal to scoot it's fat posterior in range of me to give me my mana back. I'd suggest something like the mini-pets as Familiars, summonable through a skill, and doesn't take up a summon space so you can still summon your real pet. I'd also make the Familiar you summon RNG the first time, then remain the same familiar every time (unless you purchase a Familiar reset scroll using Fomor Coins). Have them all apply the same bonus to MP regen and whatnot, but aesthetically some are more desirable than others.
what's the point of playing in a private server if my 222 broads get chiseled down by some apprentice blacksmith
You don't take 222 broadswords to apprentice blacksmiths? 222 broadswords are really good weapons. What's the point of playing the private server that promotes itself under being "Authentic Old-School Mabinogi experience" you ask? Well it's certainly not to experience an easier version of the actual game. In the same way you don't play s4max and hope to play an easier version of s4 league, no you're going to experience what the game was.
what's the point of playing in a private server if my 222 broads get chiseled down by some apprentice blacksmith
Now imagine if Broadswords were priced at 40k a pop. That gets crazy expensive right? So you'd switch to like, a Gladius or a battle sword, right? Except those are also 40k a pop now.
Welcome to the mage class. Oh also, unequip your sword and lose your stamina. Don't forget that Stam pots are no longer sold in stores! And, you need a Gladius to use smash, a broad for windmill, and a battle for assault slash. Have nice day.
Pardon my salt lads, Epsilon has *triggered* me.
But yes. Repair system needs work. This is why I suggested the max dura repair option, because then we still have that element of chance that some players desperately cling to, while the players that color-match and minmax don't lose out on the large bags of gold they forked over to finally get their perfect set.
I'll state the same opinion again, durability does serve a purpose. It keeps weapons as a resource, something to make combat easier, but they aren't forever, which in turn keeps blacksmithing and other life skills purposeful to the same people. And you don't need a good weapon to do significant damage in a game where your stats come mainly from your character. It also forces you to adapt, sometimes changing your playstyle because hey, you're lacking resources, so you can't necessarily fund your best shit right now, maybe put it in the bank and grab something else. This isn't wow where dungeons and quests turn into gear checks, this is a game where understanding the mechanics will take you much further. Playing smart and adapting instead of pressing rotations and moving out of the fire. This also reinforces the fact that weapons are resources, they don't take long to upgrade, you could potentially have an endgame weapon from the start, but if you can't afford to repair it or replace it, what are you doing? It can serve it's purpose, but it can serve that purpose without permanently destroying your favorite gear. Max durability needs to be recoverable, whether through sacrificing other weapons of same quality, or through expensive repairs, it still forces you to bank that weapon and change your play until you can afford the repairs. There are two enchant slots on each item, and you can only burn one enchant off as it stands. Along with upgrades and red and blue stones, the time and money put into your favorite gear should not be 100% destroyed by losing MAX durability permanently.
Now you bring up the example of melee weapons being expensive and having other cheaper options, which magic doesn't
(Though, not sure why you picked gladius or battle swords, because those really aren't the cheap options. Something like fluted shorts or wooden blades make a lot more sense here, but I digress.) Still cheaper than wands. 40k base cost vs 10k base cost.
There are other options to fix the magic user weapon costs by adding cheaper and weaker weapons which have weaker upgrade paths as well, or rely on artisans for decent damage, like maxing the upgrades to cc3 instead of 4, and so on. Make a weapon called the basic/flimsy wand of Fire, just reuse the basic fire wand model, neuter the upgrade options, lower the value to make it cheaper to upgrade and repair/use. While the other weapons, stay as they are, giving you the same level of choice as other skillsets have.I'm not against lower-cost entry-level mage weapons. But you don't think right now the weapons for mages are a little costly? If you're a pure mage, you're casting spells left and right, your durability goes down far faster than your gold income. If you're a dabbler, you're using other equipment and weapons, cheaping out on other options where you can and by the time your wand needs a repair, you've amassed plenty of currency. 10 Durability on each wand gives you roughly 4k per point of repair. Broad sword has 12 Durability, and costs almost 4k. That's 300g per point. Now throw on some good late-game enchants, you increase your repair cost on each by, let's say 5x. That's still only 1.5k for one point of a Broad, meanwhile a mage pays 20k for a single point. That's crazy man.
Posted at 03-17-17, 02:33 am Link | #52
As a pure mage from years of pre-genesis i find all suggestions in this thread disgusting.
Good to hear from yet another masochist who likes to tear other people's experience down based on "I had to do it, so you should have to do it." I played before free rebirth existed, should we bring that back? Let's get rid of elves and giants, too - they're unsightly. Let's go back to medieval times and corporal punishment while we're at it. Somebody had to do it, you should too.
Posted at 03-17-17, 09:51 pm Link | #54
Alchemists can change cylinders with no downside, and I am certainly vying for them to have an end-game stat rather than leaving them flatlined. Should Stamina-evaporation be implemented if Alchemists get an end game stat? If your answer is no, then magic doesn't need it either.
This is a very good point. Granted, stamina serves a more general purpose than mana, but still. I'd be fine with removing mana evaporation, as I stated earlier. As a side, does Alchemy need an end game stat? I haven't really touched alchemy ever, as it was never my cup of tea, but I am curious about this. It seems like they do pretty good damage before end game, and then at end game they provide utility moreso than just damage?
What would be the benefit of ranking a skill that allows you to give others your mana? Would it increase your Dex, if you're an archer? Str if you're a warrior? Does it reduce your CP? Why even rank this? Screw our mage man, just let our Alchemist handle it.
I suppose it could boost your mana pool as that would fit the theme of the skill while also not restricting it to any particular class, but I admit that this skill really doesn't provide any inherent incentives to rank for non-mages if that's the case. I'm just a sucker for support-y options and party-based play, and having the party's warrior contribute whatever mana he could to the mage who's actually using it sounds nice.
As for the pets, I'm down for Familiars, I suggested that for Pally/DK active skills instead of Cntrol of Darkness and Not Applicable. But if Familiars become a thing, they'll need to be a skill, separate from pets. Pets need a re-vamp, but we shouldn't be forcing pets to certain classes. Wow, look at my warrior galloping off on his str-boosting horse to the next dungeon room. Meanwhile I'm waiting for my mana-restoration Seal to scoot it's fat posterior in range of me to give me my mana back. I'd suggest something like the mini-pets as Familiars, summonable through a skill, and doesn't take up a summon space so you can still summon your real pet. I'd also make the Familiar you summon RNG the first time, then remain the same familiar every time (unless you purchase a Familiar reset scroll using Fomor Coins). Have them all apply the same bonus to MP regen and whatnot, but aesthetically some are more desirable than others.
This mini-pet familiar option definitely sounds better. Leaving it as using pets for familiars would probably end up restricting pet usage for mages or whomever like you predict. I like the idea of a familiar's appearance only being an aesthetic choice, if only for the hope that not every mage I see would be wandering around with the exact same familiar.
As a pure mage from years of pre-genesis i find all suggestions in this thread disgusting.
Is there a particular reason or explanation you want to provide to these suggestions beyond a "back in my day" sort of thing? Do you believe that there is a problem with Magic as it is right now? If so, contributing to dialogue might actually help make progress. If not, contributing to dialogue would still help facilitate a discussion.
Posted at 03-17-17, 10:16 pm Link | #55
Mana Evaporation keeps combos like Ice Spear-Blaze in check. Blaze is CONSIDERABLY powerful in the state of the game we are in, so imagine being able to get full damage off with no reprecussions. While Trinity staff does exist, you forget you have to charge the element on the staff before using your Int magic. charing is usually 9-10 bolts I think? Maybe more. So it costs a good bit of mana to even be able to use int magic, and even then you can only use one before needing to switch the element. Honestly Evaporation isn't an issue. My only complaint is healing wands do it as well. Maybe remove it off of Healing wands. The biggest issue I have with magic is high mana cost low mana pool, but once I start getting my skills built properly, that won't be an issue since I'll have about 200-300 mana.
On another note about options for mages. Wands are nice, but if you are using bolts, they aren't required. I'm going pure mage, but it doesn't mean I have to use a wand. Wands really just give you some extra damage and range, and utility based on what wand you are using. Sometimes not using a wand is better even...
As for Durability. Yeah the blacksmiths can knock it down a few points here and there. But it's the risk vs reward method, slightly different. Ferghus has a 90% rate, but his repairs are considerably cheaper than 98% at Edern. Also keep in mind that's not the only method to lose max durability. Failing an enchant can drop the durability as well. While paying 2x the amount for 100% is a nice idea, I don't think we need it. If you destroy your weapon with repairs and enchants, oh well. Get a new one and start proffing again. That's how it is in Live as well, so there should be no reason to change it.
Honestly a lot of these changes I'm seeing are twisting Mabi away from what Mabi was. You wanna do something, there are results for what you do. That's my main complaint with Live. I can mess up hard and get away with little to no consequence. I get so much money that I can afford the pricey repairs. Here on Mabi Pro, I don't make as much money, so I have to consider taking the repair to Ferghus to afford an upgrade or new weapon later down the line.
That's it. Don't argue with me, I likely won't bother listening. Just wanted to put in my two cents on these things. I will say to keep in mind Mana Evaporation WAS removed later on in Mabi, but Max durability boost was only added with the hammers, otherwise it is still FULLY possible to lose max dura with no set means of recovering it, so please if this is an issue, I don't think Mabi is the game for you.
On another note about options for mages. Wands are nice, but if you are using bolts, they aren't required. I'm going pure mage, but it doesn't mean I have to use a wand. Wands really just give you some extra damage and range, and utility based on what wand you are using. Sometimes not using a wand is better even...
As for Durability. Yeah the blacksmiths can knock it down a few points here and there. But it's the risk vs reward method, slightly different. Ferghus has a 90% rate, but his repairs are considerably cheaper than 98% at Edern. Also keep in mind that's not the only method to lose max durability. Failing an enchant can drop the durability as well. While paying 2x the amount for 100% is a nice idea, I don't think we need it. If you destroy your weapon with repairs and enchants, oh well. Get a new one and start proffing again. That's how it is in Live as well, so there should be no reason to change it.
Honestly a lot of these changes I'm seeing are twisting Mabi away from what Mabi was. You wanna do something, there are results for what you do. That's my main complaint with Live. I can mess up hard and get away with little to no consequence. I get so much money that I can afford the pricey repairs. Here on Mabi Pro, I don't make as much money, so I have to consider taking the repair to Ferghus to afford an upgrade or new weapon later down the line.
That's it. Don't argue with me, I likely won't bother listening. Just wanted to put in my two cents on these things. I will say to keep in mind Mana Evaporation WAS removed later on in Mabi, but Max durability boost was only added with the hammers, otherwise it is still FULLY possible to lose max dura with no set means of recovering it, so please if this is an issue, I don't think Mabi is the game for you.
I don't think Mabi is the game for you.
(Attitude that killed live mabi)
If you don't like it leave.
*people leaves*
why did so many people leave?
This server wont go far at all if it doesn't properly evolve, which means rebalances and changing properties. A good change was allowing elves to be darker toned. overall i think this issuupose to be a nostilga server. so i doubt much change is gonna happen anyways
btw the durability system always sucked. it did in g1 , and it still does now
Posted at 03-18-17, 12:47 am Link | #57
Well there is a balance of it being fun and it being broken. Adding in hammers into a shop for a high amount of gold could be an idea for a gold sink though....
Posted at 03-18-17, 01:36 am Link | #58
I personally do not mind the durability system. I have to worry about my weapons, and I can't always use the best weapon I have, either because it needs to be repaired or I can't afford to use it on anything but the most challenging situations I'm capable of at the moment. I won't toss away a sub par weapon, because I can't always be at my best, and I both like and am okay with that.
Glacii makes some pretty good points about mages. How good is Blaze? I've never tried it.
However, I agree with Twin that "if this is an issue, I don't think Mabi is the game for you" might have been a bit too harsh. We all have different reasons for coming to this server. Maybe some of us longed for the "good ol' days", where talents didn't yet exist and power creep was still kept relatively in check, or when inflation wasn't so bad of a problem. Maybe some of us didn't like the pay-to-win mentality of the game. Maybe some of us liked the newer content that was added on live, but at the same time missed how the game used to feel for them and wanted to go back to the game's roots. Maybe it was for another reason entirely.
Mabinogi is an old game, and has changed a lot during its lifespan. Not all of us experienced the exact same game. While someone might feel a particular aspect of the game is part of the core Mabinogi experience, others might see it as an annoyance getting in the way of what they find to be part of the core Mabinogi experience. So please, understand that, and don't try to be so dismissive of everyone else's opinion. Let's instead try and have a discussion and see if that discussion can't lead to solutions, and make this game better.
Glacii makes some pretty good points about mages. How good is Blaze? I've never tried it.
However, I agree with Twin that "if this is an issue, I don't think Mabi is the game for you" might have been a bit too harsh. We all have different reasons for coming to this server. Maybe some of us longed for the "good ol' days", where talents didn't yet exist and power creep was still kept relatively in check, or when inflation wasn't so bad of a problem. Maybe some of us didn't like the pay-to-win mentality of the game. Maybe some of us liked the newer content that was added on live, but at the same time missed how the game used to feel for them and wanted to go back to the game's roots. Maybe it was for another reason entirely.
Mabinogi is an old game, and has changed a lot during its lifespan. Not all of us experienced the exact same game. While someone might feel a particular aspect of the game is part of the core Mabinogi experience, others might see it as an annoyance getting in the way of what they find to be part of the core Mabinogi experience. So please, understand that, and don't try to be so dismissive of everyone else's opinion. Let's instead try and have a discussion and see if that discussion can't lead to solutions, and make this game better.
Posted at 03-18-17, 01:47 am Link | #59
I personally do not mind the durability system. I have to worry about my weapons, and I can't always use the best weapon I have, either because it needs to be repaired or I can't afford to use it on anything but the most challenging situations I'm capable of at the moment. I won't toss away a sub par weapon, because I can't always be at my best, and I both like and am okay with that.
Glacii makes some pretty good points about mages. How good is Blaze? I've never tried it.
However, I agree with Twin that "if this is an issue, I don't think Mabi is the game for you" might have been a bit too harsh. We all have different reasons for coming to this server. Maybe some of us longed for the "good ol' days", where talents didn't yet exist and power creep was still kept relatively in check, or when inflation wasn't so bad of a problem. Maybe some of us didn't like the pay-to-win mentality of the game. Maybe some of us liked the newer content that was added on live, but at the same time missed how the game used to feel for them and wanted to go back to the game's roots. Maybe it was for another reason entirely.
Mabinogi is an old game, and has changed a lot during its lifespan. Not all of us experienced the exact same game. While someone might feel a particular aspect of the game is part of the core Mabinogi experience, others might see it as an annoyance getting in the way of what they find to be part of the core Mabinogi experience. So please, understand that, and don't try to be so dismissive of everyone else's opinion. Let's instead try and have a discussion and see if that discussion can't lead to solutions, and make this game better.
Glacii makes some pretty good points about mages. How good is Blaze? I've never tried it.
However, I agree with Twin that "if this is an issue, I don't think Mabi is the game for you" might have been a bit too harsh. We all have different reasons for coming to this server. Maybe some of us longed for the "good ol' days", where talents didn't yet exist and power creep was still kept relatively in check, or when inflation wasn't so bad of a problem. Maybe some of us didn't like the pay-to-win mentality of the game. Maybe some of us liked the newer content that was added on live, but at the same time missed how the game used to feel for them and wanted to go back to the game's roots. Maybe it was for another reason entirely.
Mabinogi is an old game, and has changed a lot during its lifespan. Not all of us experienced the exact same game. While someone might feel a particular aspect of the game is part of the core Mabinogi experience, others might see it as an annoyance getting in the way of what they find to be part of the core Mabinogi experience. So please, understand that, and don't try to be so dismissive of everyone else's opinion. Let's instead try and have a discussion and see if that discussion can't lead to solutions, and make this game better.
Well said.
Posted at 03-18-17, 05:49 am Link | #60
As a pure mage from years of pre-genesis i find all suggestions in this thread disgusting.
Mana
Both in lore and game design, what we call magic is only a poor imitation of what gods do, and unlike them we're slow, weak, and don't have a constant surge of mp and must soak up mana from the air and drink mana potions, mana is scarce and meditation's mana recovery multiplier is a blessing despite how small it may seem because every little bit helps. Magic is plenty strong, especially with G13's new magic damage formula and elemental mastery skills. Cast time and mana usage are the cons of magic. Mana evaporation i used to see as a countermeasure to avoid mediation forcing the player into walk by holding a wand, so if you're using meditation and wand together you are expected to be using the accumulated mana with the wand that is currently held but with the introduction of the trinity staff in G13 I see it as diversity between wands and staves.
Durability
Items have vastly different repair prices, repair npc of different rates are scattered and it's up to the player how far they will go for maintenance of their equipment. there are some upgrades which reduce durability for better effect if the player chooses effectivity over the inconvenience it brings, durability loss from enchant failures, enchants that increase or decrease repair price, durability bonuses from crafted items, how low the maximum durability becomes before the player decides looking into replacing their equipment. I understand that a lot of players want their upgraded equipment to last forever, but that gives you less things to do.
Powered by mabi.pro v1.0034-arisa (View credits)
MabiPro is not associated with Nexon Co., Ltd. in any way shape or form.