MabiPro: The Authentic Old-School Mabinogi Experience

So, I've always been curios as to why it was only ever Mores that learned how to use chain casting, other than the formorians. It would make practical sense that we should be able to learn it. Now I can hear it already "it would make CC and ego wands completely useless since that's one of the main points of them!" Now now, not so fast. Without using a wand, your magic damage is significantly lower, so here's what I propose.

As we saw, Mores DOES NOT use a wand. Therefore if it may be added, you cannot use a wand in order to activate CC. I would also add a penalty of 25% extra MP usage, as you cannot channel your magic energy correctly without a wand to have an explanation. This solves the issue of it possibly making wands obsolete. It should also be one of, if not the most difficult thing to achieve in the game, since even with a nerf or debuff, CCing without a wand is insanely powerful by itself.

So, what's your take?

Gee, this vote so far is more one sided than the first half of space jam.

As much as I would like it, it would be too broken.

The main reason I would like this is for people who have a large MP pool and high ranking magic, but don't want to use a wand and risk having to kill off their entire MP supply (unless that was removed, not sure- I'm not a mage in this version of mabi). Your damage without a wand is significantly lower as well. We could also just nerf it a bit to where it wouldn't be broken, but CC is supposed to be a powerful spell-as only one human has ever even managed to do it. I get the impression some think everyone would get CC quickly, but then I can ask why doesn't everyone on pro have AR, TH, IS, FB, etc.

Along with it supposed to be the absolute hardest thing to get in the game skill wise, a good nerf (possibly an even higher MP cost per bolt needed to be cast and a cast time penalty?) might not make it broken. Besides, I don't see people complaining about AR, as that's literally the archery version of CC, so I don't see the issue people would have with CC if you can't use a wand with it.

Provided that the GMs are generous and if the idea is even possible to do in the first place, it makes sense for it to be obtainable for players. It was teased on the Mores role play dungeon and then players couldn't even obtain it. That's pure cockblock.

I am pure mage so I may be biased but I vote yes. However, I still stand by the fact that it's not obtainable for a reason.

To address other points:

CC wands would be useless
CC wands don't have to be useless. Just make sure that the wands keep their properties and handicap the CC skill so that using it without a wand equipped doesn't offer the same outcome. Or offers less outcome. So don't make it OP to begin with. Now, would the skill stack with the wands? Unexpected glitches may occur and have the possibility to break the game which would be the bigger problem and may take even longer to fix.

It would be broken
Probably. The idea isn't bad itself.

why doesn't everyone on pro have AR, TH, IS, FB, etc.
The point for those skills is to rush into one of them early game. If you spread your AP, you face greater consequence than rushing for Thunder despite how terrible it is in many scenarios.

I don't see people complaining about AR
I know right?! Archery is so much easier for the fact that archers only have to rush AR and it's viable. What the fuck? That's messed up...

Nevertheless, your idea is not any less deserving. It's pure amazing.

Make pure mage viable.


Also rechargeable Fusion Bolt. Just gonna leave that there

Show me someone doing ~600 average damage per arrow with AR before ttl 300 and I'll vote yes on this

Show me someone that does 600 damage per average ice bolt before total 300 and I'll take your post seriously

Ice-fire fusion bolt can reach that level, doesn't miss, and can be done with minimal ap cost and investment. To prove the point in the last two RBs I've gone from 15 total int to being able to crit for 2k with firebolt. Magic is without a doubt good enough without adding in chaincasting. If you want to buff something start with alchemy, it does the lowest average damage when fully maximized compared to other skillsets. Magic does close to the highest.

Mages can't sustain multiple waves of enemies by themself. It simply costs too much. Fusion bolt doesn't fix that

You also can't CC fusion bolt. You also can't shoot all 5 arrows at once to get a 6.5X modifier plus your crit % as one singular shot. I guarantee you my total 401 pure archer would do well over 9k damage if all the arrows were shot at once with my r1 crit AND had a 6.5X modifier.

Besides the point, getting CC wands is one of the easiest things to do in the game anyway. Just sit next to an MT tunnel with literally any wand and spam heal. That's it, you have a +4CC wand within the hour.

Also to edit again. He mention fusion bolt, what was the major thing I said you can't have when using the CC skill? Oh right, you are not allowed to use a wand. So you couldn't CC fusion bolt to begin with, not even with a CC wand as it will plain stop you, though there is an exploit to get a 4 charge firebolt instantly after you charge up all 5 on live. Wands also have a damage multiplier on them on top of any modifier you have innately, this is why a fully charged firebolt doesn't do nearly as much damage compared to having a fire wand, or any other bolt magic for that matter. A skilled CC where no wands are allowed and you get an MP cost penalty would be a side grade at best, and a support skill at worst.

Completely out of context but I don't believe that it's fair to compare the damage of archers and the damage of mages because of cast time. To get the max multiplier for fusion bolt you have to charge all 5 times. An archer can do that damage in a split second whereas a mage would take too long to be any use after the first wave of enemies. Most people forget this part and immediately rush to "It's broken"

Depending on the distance the archer is, and the rank of bolt magic the mage has, it is possible to shoot the FB before the archer is done with his AR, though it would be close. But yes, in general the archer will get off more shots than a mage with FB. We have to remember that archery and magic are two different types of damage dealers though. Archery is a somewhat fast DPS type, especially with AR. While magic is a more hit-like-a-truck every couple seconds sort of thing.

Edit: Speaking of hitting like a truck, meteor strike when?

You're forgetting 10 second charge fireballs due to chaincasting staves
You're forgetting chaincasted fire wands and 10mp potions allows for faster and higher damage than magnum spam besides maybe elves
You're forgetting that in a party, charging between waves makes damage output of mages much MUCH higher and more stable than archers
You're forgetting archer miss chance gets them killed 20% of the time they go to fire arrows
You're forgetting that mages have 2x-3x the life due to Mana shield
You're forgetting that mages have options on how to juggle aggro besides just "I hope I don't get multiaggro'd"
You're forgetting that HAILSTORM OUTRANGES EGO LLBS AND GUARDIAN BOWS
You're forgetting how ridiculously easy it is to rank almost every single int skill in the game.
Also you're mistaking G14 AR with G13 AR, our TOTAL DAMAGE AMONG ALL SHOTS is less than 4.5x (NOT 6.9x) due to defense stats and rarely does more than 500 damage (2.3x raw) for a full charge and endgame gear since monster defense reduced EVERY SHOT'S DAMAGE
And unless you're using an arbalest with minimal range you wont crit in end game missions at ALL

Just a few things to keep in mind before asking for even more buffs or comparing yourselves to other classes

The skill is fundamentally broken. It lets you machine gun fury of light, for example and breaks a bunch of other magic related things. It's not a good skill to have at all in general. Promise, players aren't missing out.
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Boof

If my memory is correct I never wanted to buff mages. Just wanted them to be viable. Buffing implies that it stood a chance in the first place. And despite everything we supposedly "forgot," mages are still outclassed

Sure in the same way that everything is outclassed by braindead golems. If you're looking for the strongest skillset you should have played that. Magic has it's place and is plenty viable so long as you're not playing the class incorrectly. Every class has things it does well and things it doesnt. Magic can easily clear high end elite missions and new custom content like caverns with a single skill. If you're not enjoying the class then pick something else, but its average damage far exceeds most other classes if you're in your niche and has the versatility to compete with other classes even if you aren't so long as you have the equipment (Upgraded Dragon staves, cc+4 fire wands, etc. ) .

Well, the skill was made for G1, and was probably never touched beyond that aside from assigning it to mobs, so it makes sense that it barely even works by todays patch if one were to use it as is.

1: Fireball isn't a viable thing to spam unless it kills everything in one hit, because it causes all mobs hit to aggro you. So either you have good party co-ordination, or you're dead son.
2: I concede, that is indeed true, and should be fixed so the charges cost the entire 5 bolts, not just one.
3: You won't always have the opportunity to charge a fusion bolt or any ADV magic spell between waves, whereas AR and CS take less time comparatively
4: If the mobs are always running at you, instead of you making sure they're stunned so you get that glorious 99% hit rate at least SOME of the time, that's on you for not having good mob control. Especially since archers rarely deal with more than one mob at a time if they can get away with it.
5: Literally anyone can get MS, and it's incredibly easy to do so, moot point. Mages also generally have much less HP, so the MS adds up to about the same HP pool as a melee or ranged person.
6: Like what? Spam CC lightning bolt? Hope that all the targets line up for your IS? Don't even bother with thunder, that skill is weak as can be compared to the rest.
7: Hailstorm takes a long ass time to even get it able to be used, then you have to wait a long time to get max charge. By the time you get a single 5 charge, that archer over there already shot off 3 AR's or 3 mags.
8:Archery is also incredibly easy, aside from life skills, which aren't hard-just a long grind
9:I never implied we were using g14+ AR, because we aren't... Also crit enchants are a thing, use them-vine is a good one. As for less than 500 damage at end game, I haven't gotten there on Pro, so I wouldn't know. However if you're at the endgame, you better have endgame gear with some good enchants-or that's on you.

As someone who IS at end game I can guarantee you that everything you said before this sentence makes it apparent that you are nowhere near end game. Everything you said in rebuttal is some form of wrong or at the very least misguided.
1 Fireball deals 10-20k damage against endgame clearing all rooms in normal content
3 Your party always makes opportunities for you to charge since its end game and if you're challenging the content without comms or understanding you're going to fail regardless of party composition
4 try archery and then read your statement again, you have no clue how it works, so from someone with 1.5k levels in it i can tell you this line is complete bullshit
5 mana shield scales with mana, and the only skills that grant mana are magic skills. Sure anyone can get it, but explain how you can get 700+ mana without ranking magic skills and i'll retract the statement. Until then it stands
6 thunder is the main tool for clusters, ice spear works for lines of monsters, fusion ice lightning can stun area of effect temporarily for party members, ice bolt spam can hold 4 monsters with cc+3 wand, etc etc. If you cant juggle aggro it means you're not playing the class correctly.
7 Ignoring AR since that skill deals absolutely no damage, 3 mags means on average 1 will miss on average which nets you around 2.5k damage, then during the duration you can maybe get off 4 more so lets say you hit 6/7. You have a chance of dying 1 time during that and deal around 6-9k total damage. During that time the mage has hit 10 separate hail storms 5 charge with 0% miss chance dealing average of 15k damage with no chance of death since knock back and stun time allow the skill to waste any monster without blue ping. These are actual numbers from end game with similar levels of investment weighted cost-wise if anything to the archer.
8 the only "difficult" thing in this game is the grind. Weaving, refining, tailoring, handicraft. if you don't have these ranked up your damage will be SEVERELY hindered on archery (80-90%). Mages can easily rank all the music skills and a few magic skills for a free 500 int and from there its a matter of getting an extra 40-50% (or 30-50% to compare to the archery number) of your damage more damage from the harder books to acquire and smithing.
9 All I'm saying is that AR is complete trash so don't even compare it to anything except maybe wind blast. ice bolt cc with 200 int deals more damage, charges faster, and doesn't miss. The only damaging skills archery has outside of uladh normal mode dungeons is crash shot and magnum shot.

If you want to continue this conversation post from your main account so I can tell what portion of the game you're in, otherwise this conversation is over. If you're trying to extend the worst part of magic to the whole and compare it to the most powerful parts of every other class since you haven't experienced endgame yet then there's no point in explaining something you'll experience first hand in a few months.

Am pure mage. Who says I don't enjoy magic? You're very quick to jump to conclusions. If you're trying to convince people that mages aren't outclassed because they're able to spam a single skill, you have to put a lot of mana and time to make that possible. And it's a really long and boring process that is really counter intuitive because it costs mana to make mana. Add money onto that and yeah, you may as well just pick a different class. In fact if you're so sure, then just provide evidence instead of throwing around hostilities. You're not that convincing anyway