MabiPro: The Authentic Old-School Mabinogi Experience

Okay boys and girls, I'm here to tell you something you don't want to hear! Genesis combat doesn't suck! Now, put your darn pitchforks away! Let's just take a second, because both systems suck AS THEY ARE currently!

Pre Genesis:
-Combat boils down to knowing a foes AI to know what they are doing/going to do first.
-You need skills to load as fast as possible, so the faster the skill loads, the better it is.
-WM. Wm wm wm wm wm wm wm. .8 second load time at rank 9+. WM.

Genesis combat, how Nexon has it:
-Mobs don't have it. Why.................?
-Def and counter are broken.
-Some cooldowns aren't long enough.
-Some things are sloooow now and thus suck balls.

Pre combat is knowing what you're doing and hurting you for not already knowing or using basic tactics that almost no AI can fight (Fire counter) without the help of a skill.

Post combat is more reaction based but still has the same flaws while fixing some and creating others...

If Defend/Counter/WM could not be used within 1-1.5 seconds of being hit, they wouldn't be busted as fuck. If mobs had post combat it would be fair and a lot more fun. Some cooldowns really need to be longer, like holyshit just by .5-1.5 second in most cases.

That's my 4:30am take on both combat systems. You can now pick up your pitchforks and attack me.

I disagree with you, but I don't violently disagree with you.

I like the pre genesis system, that's one of the reasons I liked mabinogi when I started.
It's challenging because most mobs can kill you in few hits (if not one shot, I have to thank the deadly mechanic) but you have to observe them and gain experience to know your enemies and how to fight them properly and fast enough (since magic-counter is efficient against a single aggro mob but so slow at lower ranks).
Also a cool-down system is something you see in most mmorpg (95%+ ?) so why should a game as unique as mabinogi follow the general trend.
To explain this critical genesis change, if I remember correctly, the original development team stopped working on mabinogi after G12 to start mabinogi 2 (which was cancelled unfortunately). The new dev team starting on G13 probably didn't have in mind what were the motive behind the original mechanics and started changing everything to look closer to common mmorpg.
Their first test (on the kr test server) was to implement a class system with class restrictions on skills (advance spells only for mages). Fortunately all the fans playing on the test server were against this stupid decision and that's how we ended with the destiny system (a kind of class without restriction, nice but unnecessary in my opinion).

In the end, people are bound to have different preferences and opinions. Obviously none of the fighting systems is perfect but at least the pre genesis was thought for mabinogi since the beginning and the game was shaped around it. I like the pre genesis system and that's a reason I came to this server. If you don't like it, it might not be the good place for you.

The issue isn't solely in what the player is capable of. Example, i like guns in Live, even without reforges and enchants. They're not the most OP thing ever, but good at dealing with trash mobs. However, even their short stun time can still be abused in high end, in groups, against even some of the scariest enemies.
https://puu.sh/w4ASA.gif (think the gif's just too big so have a url)


The issue lies in that the players get constantly buffed, while the existing content is BARELY tweaked at all. There are plenty of things in mabinogi's live that has potential, or that could be tweaked to be made better balanced with the rest of the game, but nexon doesn't care and players enjoy being overpowered anyway, so nothing is ever done.

Take sharp mind's removal in live, and look at things like goblins, or red town rats in ciar adv. They will load smash, then WALK to you rather than run. It's because the player isn't supposed to see their skill like 80% of the time, so this is a valid strategy. If you pay attention to their skill load time, you'll know what they're doing even though you can't see the skill. Otherwise, you'd want to do N+bolt or counter, so whether they do defend or smash either one you won't be too heavily punished.

I'd honestly be fine with dynamic combat, but i'd definitely expect an AI re-balance to go with it. I feel it a necessity for the mobs to appropriately keep up with the players without sucking the fun out of it.
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Discord: Tonkatunk#7079
https://github.com/Tonkatunk/Mabi-Pro-Lazyfae-Mods

I think you'll find it rare that people complain about WM.

I have to admit the load time is not the only feature helping mabinogi to be unique. It's just that I wouldn't be able to list everything and it was one of the main points raised in this discussion.

For wm, 0.8 s of load time might be overpowered but when I started playing mabi NA (I'm living in Europe and had to use a proxy in the early days), it was needed to compensate the lag, so I wouldn't complain about it. I guess wm was supposed to be a last resort skill to save your life in multi aggro situations but it ended up being the best offensive skill for melee. They probably made it difficult to train to limit the number of players with r1 wm but it didn't help once everyone knew it was the first thing to rank up.
It might have discouraged some casual players from optimizing their fighting skills tough. Fortunately you can do life skills for fun without "needing" to fight high level mobs.

Now on a last note, just imagine melee without wm, we would be fu**** up. At least all the other fighting styles are ranged and can naturally pull out mobs (well melee can too but it's boring one on one) or use AoE skills from afar.

See, that's the thing. You're not going to be able to persuade people to switch to a newer generation, especially not overnight. There's various concerns, and while the combat change is one of them, the implications that follow are their biggest concern, mainly a "power creep" that may not even exist. Even if it did, the Mabi.Pro team seem to have enough resources to try and curb that by giving monsters an expanded list of fighting skills to maintain the game's balance.