MabiPro: The Authentic Old-School Mabinogi Experience

So recently there was a discussion about these pets (again), and personally I had an idea that might please the people that want them and restrict the possible damage they do on game play so that people that were against them might appreciate them more.

So, downsides of them that I have heard of people so far is:

- The effects, ranging from sleep effect, stationary stun, knockback, healing, all make combat too easy if you can just spam them for their effects
- The damage they do (the ones that deal damage) can be used to just kill everything if you chain summon them while you are just hiding/playing dead
- P2W (this is true for live servers, here they would (i assume) not be sold for money, rather obtainable)

Upsides I have heard:
- We lack people, when you eventually want to do stuff, its nice to have a back up atleast (rather than nothing)
- More options available
- They look swag (although this can be achieved by just removing the effect and still introducing the pets)

So to tackle the first solution is to just restrict how many you can get. In my opinion, just give everyone just 1 pet. Not one of every kind of effect, just one pet, with the simplest effect, either knockback on summon or stationary hitstun and not any of the sleeping stuff, or debuffing stuff (although which effect would be introduced and how many allowed is up for debate).

To tackle the second solution, once again, limit the amount. But besides that, don't introduce any pet that deals more than 10 damage. Combining the fact that you couldn't summon multiple in a row, and that they would deal only 10 damage (and lets be real, no1 is going to get 60 pets so they can do 10dmg/s while playing dead), would make it so you can't just do any dungeon without putting actual effort into it.

The P2W issue... just don't make them cost money (which is already true for everything in our mabi private server).

What are the thoughts on this solution? Would people be fine if you can only get 1 (or more, but a small restricted amount)? Can anyone give any constructive arguments against having just one pet? Personally all I want is to not have the problem that you can just a. deal tons of damage through merely summoning a pet and b. being able to just suppress everything all the time by just using knockback, stun or sleep pet. So introducing them like I mentioned seems like a fair solution to tackle those problems.

Another important note, is that something like this would probably be polled. I've heard that this has been polled before (when I didn't play yet), but I think that if the poll were to specify that there are these constraints I've mentioned before (or a reasonable variation of it), the results might be different from the previous poll.

Implement them without the AoE effect, works for me.


Other then that, no.

Reflects my thoughts accurately
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Discord: Tonkatunk#7079
https://github.com/Tonkatunk/Mabi-Pro-Lazyfae-Mods

I don't see any being posted thus far apart from "just no". Elaboration please? Discussion please?

And why does this not work, as far as I'm concerned I've dealt with the issues most people had through this solution, including the ones you mentioned on global.


And your thoughts are ''I just don't want this, just because''?

Like I've said before, I have my reservations with introducing them as well, but under these conditions I don't think they will do the harm that they did in live, which people are afraid of. What other problems would there be to introducing more stuff into the mabinogi we play?

It feels like people get PTSD whenever something is mentioned about stuff regarding content that ruined mabinogi live, without considering possible solutions to fixing it. Instead, it just gets shut down immediately.

Personally, I think the ability to spam AoE pets is a really cheesy tactic that cheapens a lot of content in the game... if you have enough of them, you can just clear entire dungeon rooms with pet summons. However, the pets themselves are awesome, like the dragons and flame horse.

I would be perfectly happy with the "allow the pets, kill the AoE skills" solution.
But I would also be happy with the "one AoE pet per account" solution. One is alright, and gives some variety, while not allowing spam strategies to take off. Players would also have to carefully consider which one they wanted. (Or even better... be able to get further pets that don't have the AoE effect)

To put it simple, some of the pets look really cool, I would go for two flame horses for example, Provided they wouldn't have the AoE.

If they had the AoE restricting to just 1 pet of each type wouldn't work either, even if anyone can obtain it, Multiple type of Different AoE pets, voila, problem solved.
The pets in my point of view should have never been given AoE on summon, people rely to much on them and focus less on learning how to play the game(and those that know how to play, get lazy)
Not saying everyone is like this, just my two cents, and I find AoE pets OP in general.

Implement them without AoE, or not at all.


(Because I know well what will happen to me if they do get implemented with AoE)

About the obtaining multiple pets:


And about the ''relying on it in combat'', you can't just rely on a 60 second cooldown effect to carry you through everything. Yes, you can if you have a large amount of them since you can summon multiple, but not if there is just one.

This. So much. We have this amazing opportunity to take the things Nexon ruined and fix them and sometimes there are solutions outside of "NEVER IMPLEMENT IT. NOPE." or "STRIP IT OF ALL ITS WORTH". There are comfortable in-between solutions that should be more openly discussed.



This is an interesting concept. Have 1 AoE pet for utility/variety and then any other future pets that just look cool can have their AoEs removed. That way you get the 1 AoE pet AND the cool looking future mounts that dont give any broken effects. This seems like a very nice solution to me.

If they were introduced, I would prefer without the spawn effect but I wouldn't mind if it was one of the other proposed solutions.

To limit to 1~3 pet(s) per account, it could be a quest reward.

Can't believe some of these comments come from people of my guild (Brotherhood). What a shame.

Also the amount of entitlement coming from these peeps "OH JUST GIVE US A REASON WHY CAN'T YOU, WHY DON'T YOU EVEN CONSIDER", ehm, because they pay for the server, and don't ask for anything in exchange. It's their call, period.
Do I even need to say this?

But on topic, I vote against this idea, unless it is implemented without the AOE effects.

For me, aoe pets are one of the banes of learning. Even if you only give each player just one, what do you think happens in a party of 6 or 8 in a dungeon like peaca? What about the future? People will join the game, see aoe pet restriction, and vote to remove it. I say no, because i'd rather nip it in the bud, and just flat out say not to any thought of actual aoe pets, there needs be no conversation on the control of them, just don't introduce them.
_________________________
Discord: Tonkatunk#7079
https://github.com/Tonkatunk/Mabi-Pro-Lazyfae-Mods

I'm sorry, but I would feel more ashamed that the people running my guild can't bring a constructive argument against my case. Lazyfae's last comment was a good argument, you can still get the problem of the ''many summons'' by having a big party that can summon a bigger amount of them. One of you two could have made that argument, instead of Selzyr missing the part in my post where I clearly give a solution to the problem of being able to get multiple pets, and you who just flat out come in here to insult us while we are trying to get a discussion going. I am not saying ''DO THIS RIGHT NOW I WANT THIS'', I've mentioned I have my own reservations with the whole thing. However, I also think these kind of things should be able to be discussed without others being like ''man, I hate you now for not agreeing with me''. I can understand if I got hate from others if I brought poor reasons or bad arguments to the table, but that would also mean people should be able to quickly argue that my standpoint is completely wrong, instead of giving responses that imply (or flatout say) ''you are talking nonsense''.

As for Lazyfae his response, yes, you make a good argument, introducing them even under a limit might bring some of the problems of spam summoning them if you have a big party. However, I still don't think that just having a big number of people that can each bring one copy of the pet, makes them suddenly able to act like gods in every dungeon like people can do in live (on their own even). Besides that, I can't think of any counter argument against what you said, and it is a reasonable argument to not want them at all.

The only solution I could think of is
a. party wide cooldown after a certain number of summons of them (impossible to implement)
b. making enemies resist the effect after multiple instances of the effect being applied to them (also impossible to implement I think)

"Oh just give us a reason" isn't directed towards the GMs. It's directed towards the people that flat out insult us for no real reason? It's against people who give no argument against the suggestion. Drahan has spoken to us about this actually. I am glad that at least our GMs are much more open minded than some people here.

I would understand your tone towards us if we were asking for all aoe pets (or even just a large number) to be introduced. But none of the discussion we were attempting to open asked for that. They were well thought out points of suggestion discussing a possible solution to some thing that has come up multiple times across global chat.

Speaking on constructive, it would be best not to hound people who don't have anything valuable to contribute. You'll stray from the topic you wish to promote.

I would also like to point out, if you've ever done cqc while with people who have aoe pets, they will get you killed. 1 can honestly be worse than 10, because there won't be the stun lock, but it will either change the stun times or just interrupt your combo. Not a good thing at cqc, especially since fire horse knockback has a much shorter stun time on knockback, than say wm with a slow weapon. I could ramble about different scenarios, but i think that will suffice on that for now.
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Discord: Tonkatunk#7079
https://github.com/Tonkatunk/Mabi-Pro-Lazyfae-Mods

This is true, although then it also starts to come down to the individual players their skills. You can get killed by your teammates in other ways as well if you don't work well together, simply through them attacking your monster at the wrong time, either unintentionally with a windmill or other forms of aoe (spells, CS), or actively through shooting ranged attacks, magic or just melee attacks, sending their to distract a monster you were fighting without them knowing it and not desummoning it, etc. The AoE pet becomes another function in the game that can be used. Whether the usage is beneficial or not will depend on player skill. Whether or not you agree with this additional function being added is of course personal opinion, on which people can form their own opinion.


Yeah, I admit I reacted inappropriately at the start, it was just very disheartening after thinking about a proper solution to get people that just say ''no'' and it was a bit annoying instead of getting a discussion going.

If AoE pets were to be implemented, then I wouldn't mind the addition of the hitstun (outside of the perseus/pegasus/bone dragons, those actually hurt) or knockback AoEs. The knockback pets in particular are almost like the escape bombs we have now, albeit on a 60 second cooldown, near-limitless use (if you use them for naught else), and lower damage.

However, I would be against the addition of the freezing, healing, or debuffing pets as those have some gamebreaking potential, particularly with freezing since you can trivialize almost anything in G13 content with a party spamming freezing AoE pets.

should be expensive reskins at most

I love the big variety of pets mabinogi has to offer, especially hoping we get partners sometime soon, and as much as I've heard people complaining about them making things too easy, thats not a reason to not have the pets.

I strongly agree with having AoE pets with their respective effects but restricting players to have a certain number of each pet, I wouldnt say just 1 though, having 2 max should be okay, maybe even 3 but a little risky, so keeping them at 2 max should be okay. I dont know if theres a way to do that but if there is, then I totally support, because having AoE pets is not a problem, the problem is people spamming these AoE effects by having like 10 or 20 of the same pet.

Limit the number of each pet a player can have and the problem will be gone <3

not to be a party pooper, but even if you go by the Original Pets, Bone Dragon, Flame Horse, you can get two per player right? a party of 8, all of them have a Horse and a Dragon, they can clear Peaca Normal with pet spam.