MabiPro: The Authentic Old-School Mabinogi Experience

I think you should nerf windmill and make it as strong as stomp. You shouldnt be able to kill a whole room and take all the drops with just one skill.

I dislike WM as a skill. I hate how every single "class" should max it first. I think WM is an awful skill, but not for the reason that it kills everything in an area. One, the area (even when maxed) is small compared to AOE Adv spells, and two, by the time someone has r1 WM they have put a large amount of time into maxing one skill and i don't think that it should suddenly do zero damage with that much effort. If you're really that worried about someone else WMing, you should prob go pick it up and max it yourself.

Well, the base concept of wm was a last resort skill in case of multi agro mobs approaching (I think at least). So I suppose that on this basis, it should do less damages but one could always spam it as it is now and still kill everything after some time so it wouldn't change much for the end result but be less efficient in more situations. I'm a wmer and I like it the way it is, I understand your concern though.

Meleers don't have many options since they have to close in packs of mobs (often multi agro ones) and take extra risk. The fact that wm consume 10% hp is an added risk and many players (wmers) are in perma deadly which means one mistake, one ranged attack, one bit of lag and you're dead. Isn't it enough of a risk to make it balanced ?

If you compare to ranged attacks which is way more secure, especially in open environments where you can pick mobs one by one without any risk of getting overwhelmed. And with some skills you can even kill them all like int/adv magics and crash shot from a kinda secure distance.
You just have to choose which is you favorite way to play. If your concern is the presence of wmers in the team.... well you can agree before hand if you don't want a wmer in your party or even make two teams in most SMs.

WM is very strong early game, ramps up power very quickly and will always be use able and is very versatile. It allows for very powerful grinding on lower level missions, and is good in the missions in which lower health mobs are close to each other, or only require few hits of the skill to die so they don't scatter out too much from each subsequent hit.

Now, later on in the game (elite missions, HM adv dungeons etc.) I find myself still using it a lot of course (since lets be real, damage wise melee doesn't have many skills, especially not aoe), but way less than pre total 300. On mobs that start to have a lot of prot/def and tons of HP, I just find myself spamming smash all the time, sending a pet to distract with 1/2 hits while charging smash, since it just deals way more damage, finishing the enemies quicker.

At this point in the game though, an elf's magnum spam starts to become really effective as well, since they can basically spam smashes from a distance and without having to wait as long as with smash to charge the skill again and don't have to move to the monster (in return for having to aim). I'm not sure about how well adv magic fares in elites/HM dungeons, since I've never really seen people really use it primarily on this server.

So yeah, what I'm saying is WM is not the end all be all. Not that I don't agree that melee might feel a bit lackluster and that WM is pretty class defining, but that's also why you can freely switch weapons and such in combat.

Bugbears or blinkers?

There are situations where a party just generally agrees to wm. It's rarely the best strategy for clearing, but it is still efficient, especially in a party who does not know the ai or what skills the mobs have/how to watch for them. Other times, if you spam wm you will either make the party mad, or get yourself killed instantly.

Windmill has a balance in place, and it's not the end all be all, but it is still highly effective. I personally would prefer live's wm, much as i hate live, just because it'd make wm more efficient to me. Inv frames are nice, but taking no dmg at all would be preferable for me personally, as i hate being low health.
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Discord: Tonkatunk#7079
https://github.com/Tonkatunk/Mabi-Pro-Lazyfae-Mods

As someone who got to the elite level in classic live Mabinogi using melee exclusively, I will say windmill is far from being over powered. Smash, defend assault slash and charge are your bread and butter with pet rotations to manage multi-aggro for maxing out DPS with some windmill especially in emergencies in between to avoid getting hit.

The thing to understand is the cost of 10% when your HP reaches 400+ is a huge pain to manage and you will probably spend your entire life-cycle playing the game with pot poison or being deadly both of which are not recommended at that level of difficulty especially solo.

I will say that being a melee at higher levels in the game becomes more a hassle than its worth and your fingers are going to have to be jumping all over your keyboard and mouse like a Korean MOBA player where as other classes can relax in the corner of a room and range DPS/AOE with limited pet multi aggro control.

Windmill is a defensive skill, this is not a class oriented game at least not yet (</3 Live Servers) and so if you want to get it you get it if you don't then skip it.

It will continue to seem over powered early to mid game while you're fighting enemies with low hp/low protection but its limits will quickly become apparent later in the game especially as a melee player.
If windmill were to be nerfed to the level of stomp there would be no point in using a human melee player anymore.

You forgot splash, especially with r1 smash and high ranks in other skills/stats. I can honestly say, as a giant who used a max splash range battle hammer, that i could go in hm/elite and smash something, then go stand by a mob that's not aggroed and wait for the mob i hit to get near, then smash the mob i was by for the smash splash to send them both flying. It actually does work well in tandem with assault slash>wm if they live.

WM is still pretty OP in mid to late game, but not end game. Purely because it does ignore prot for factoring crit rate, and consistent crits can be a huge game changer. End game, you'll be high enough crit it's not a big deal for most areas, but late game it can still have quite a big impact.

I also can't agree that it's a defensive skill. Several mobs have their ai reset by wm. Depending on what type of mob you're up against, you can even wm a defense, then proceed to wm again thank to the invulnerable frames messing with the mobs' targeting. Unless you can kill in 1-3 hits, you'll definitely want it for nightmare humanoids. Wm spamming something in a corner while holding a very slow weapon, can keep it locked if it has no passive defense and doesn't have like sahagin speed. All this is just solo strategies too, wm can be combo'd with others, or used for smashmill, in plenty of other ways too. It really just depends on how the individual prefers to fight.


There are quite a few tactics i've seen in melee, and it's not restricted to pure melee. A golden oldie would be smash-ib/lb-charge-smash-delay assault slash-smash-counter then repeat from the bolt part of the combo. Extremely effective on anything that doesn't have passive defense, and even if you don't do dmg you can still use it to lock down a mob, while say a friend clears out other mobs. Another less effective tactic, but amusing to do, is for giants to have knuckles, do the 7 hit combo to knock an enemy back, load lightning bolt and run near enemy, hit with bolt, follow with stomp as soon as enemy moves, and then you can actually assault slash because if you did it right, the enemy is knocked over by stomp. It's not a very efficient combo, but it is funny to pull off. To this day, think i've only seen one other person besides me do it though.
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Discord: Tonkatunk#7079
https://github.com/Tonkatunk/Mabi-Pro-Lazyfae-Mods