MabiPro: The Authentic Old-School Mabinogi Experience

So after doing some research, I found out that G14+ started retconning a lot of stuff, like when Lugh was actually alive, etc. Even Triona was mentioned to have been killed sometime in G13-16 but when is unknown as well as how or why*, and Tarlach's personality went haywire sometime after G16 as well.

There's a lot of inconsistencies and plot holes in the Live version because of the new devs, so perhaps G14+ in this game could be wildly different, filling in plot holes and rewriting characters and events to make more sense based on Oldschool Mabinogi. If this did happen, what events/stories would you all want included?




*With that said, everyone in Emain Macha used to be concerned with Macha's reincarnation, believing some human to realy be her, and in G3 Triona was seen as the medium for Macha's resurrection, which Ruari stopped, yet Macha was alive in Saga, suggesting that Triona may have become her. Knowing that Tieve is the reincarnation of Morrighan in Vindi, and it was said that Tieve and Morrighan's souls "warred" with one another for dominance of their body (Tieve's soul is possibly still in Morrighan during Mabinogi, as Vindi happens before Mabi), it's possible that during the G13-16 gap Triona was successfully turned into Macha and Macha's soul won. Whether this theory is correct or not, it could be an inspiration for an "alternate" Chapter 4 where Triona is featured and a happier ending occurs, even a situation where her soul meets Macha's and her love for Ruari clashes with Macha's broken heart.

I guess that the requirement to revive Macha would be to get a red haired/ red eyed girl and offer her to Lia Fail. I always thought that there was like a spiritual version of the gods and goddesses that live forever somewhere up there and their physical bodies would be created through the Lia Fail process with a sacrifice.

I also think that there were multiple possessions for the body of Morrighan since Vindictus. And the main reason (which may be going too far) is that when Morrighan first introduces you to Nao, she says that Mari was merged with an unknown goddess (possibly Tieve depending where the Vindi story goes). I always thought that Tieve looked similar to Nao.

I would like to start with fixing the whole Cichol/Morrighan relationship by making it somehow clear that Morrighan =/= Tieve, and that they became friends after Tieve was no longer under her possession. And possibly make a tie-in in how the Vindi heroes affected the history of Mabinogi (I believe that all that's said about them is something like Lann, Fiona, and Evie helped somehow - Legatus)

Definitely I agree with changing the story of G16, as I have never fully been able to convince myself that Lugh was that much of a wimp. How a cool nihilist became a complete biotch didn't sit well with me. And plus they have a height difference <- lol. I would like the story for each of the main characters to go as this:

Tarlach stays in Sidhe for the rest of his life. Kristell, Ruairi, and Nao come to visit him often (Make NPCs of them that sometimes pop up, kind of like for the girls during the Martial Arts questline).

Morgant and Triona disappear forever no one knows where they went, but in G16 Morgant knows that Morrighan is setting him up and sends an imposter to act as him (Lugh) and fakes the grave of Triona.

In some custom shadow missions, have Jenna appear somewhere as a blacksmith and allow her to repair your equipment with higher success rates directly related with the difficulty of the mission at reduced prices compared to other blacksmiths, only if the mission was successful. Also have AI's of Leymore and Cai assist you in these missions.

Change the identities of Black Dragon Knight and Black Mask ( I don't even know if that would be possible due to them showing up in cutscenes as old Ruairi and old Tarlach) to other unseen characters with different backgrounds for their motivations.

Tieve was never a goddess. She was a mortal reincarnation of Morrighan that slowly was pulled back to Tir Na Nog in order to transform back into Morrighan. However, she had developed a separate identity than Morrighan so when she turned into her, it was said their "souls" were fighting over the body and Morrighan's won. That's not to say that Tieve isn't still in Morrighan somewhere, but it's possible for her to be completely destroyed one day; however, Morrighan's docile, peaceful look in Mabi is very, very similar to Tieve's personality, so either Morrighan is copying her to seem innocent or they're still fighting over their body (which makes sense as during Alch it shows Morrighan being "awakened" as the goddess of destruction, different from her personality up to that point).

It's likely that Mari merged with Dana, as Dana is a central deity that as-of-yet has not been revealed in-game; Tieve is not a deity, never was, never will be.


If Morrighan really destroyed Tieve completely, which I doubt, there's no way Cichol would befriend her. Unlike Morrighan taking over Tieve's body, Cichol is really just Keaghan having achieved godhood, meaning that Cichol === Keaghan forever, and Keaghan absolutely hates Morrighan for taking Tieve from him. I can only see him working together with her if Tieve wants it.


I disagree with you on all accounts for Lugh/Morgant and Triona. In Live it's revealed that Macha somehow is already resurrected despite the ritual to summon her through Triona failing in G3, BUT Triona "died" in Shakespeare giving Lugh/Morgant a legit reason to want to destroy the gods, which is what the whole Tara incident was about.

In my headcanon, the residents of Emain Macha - Lugh included - are stuck in an ageless dreamstate where they don't age, the Tragedy actually happened long ago, the Three Warriors were all there (Mari was escaping when Merlin's spell went wrong and "froze" the inhabitants), and over time the events that people refer to as happening long ago occur with the characters involved remaining at the same age. If so, it's possible for Macha's curse to have happened right before that with Lugh being her lover that, due to his status, was politically forced to marry another woman, making Triona Macha's daughter and therefore it making sense for her to be used as a medium for Macha since demigods have been shown in Mabi to be good conductors.

Some people may have detected otherworldly power from Triona and thought she was a Fomor, especially since Macha's curse and the Tragedy both could have made Lugh defect from Humanity and the Gods which would give him a reason to become Morgant, especially since he wanted to protect his daughter. This would also give him a REASON for risking his daughter's life for Macha if he was still in love with her and wanted to bring her back.

This is why my headcanon remake of G16 etc involves Triona successfully becoming Macha only for Macha to realize that it was her daughter that's her vessel and murdering Lugh for trying to sacrifice her, and she "kills" herself to die with Lugh but Triona inherits the body and officially ascends to godhood in place of her mother. Happy ending for her since she can be with Ruari, and Lugh/Macha's starcrossed tale ends with its proper Romeo/Juliet style fate.


Extra Info: My vision of a remade Chapter 4 just consists of four plays, one for each guardian (Hamlet>Juliet>Midsummer>Golvan). G13 is really just replaced by the entire Chapter 4. The last guardian, a concept abandoned by DevCat, has to be made original (they're based on tarots, so maybe a Chariot with four beasts). My idea is for Merrow to be Bella in disguise and her play, For Golvan, to be last - it's a mysterious play that Shakespeare didn't write but was delivered to the actors and he likes it so it's played; it's basically Bella's attempt to get Shakespeare prepared for future events (Chapter 5, which consists of Macbeth, Venice, Tempest, and Pericles, not in order) with Golvan representing Shakespeare and Aisling representing Bella; Aisling is supposedly from a "play" where she's a guard of the Queen of Swords (Morrighan) and sacrifices herself to save those she loves (which is true as Bella in Live dies and believes her actions were to stop Erinn from being destroyed), meaning that Golvan/Ailsing ARE Shakespeare/Bella and she's trying to warn him...with For Golvan really meaning For Shakespeare, because it's for Shakespeare!

Wow that was really informative. I must of missed a lot of those things when I was playing Vindi (You know how speed leveling to 90 is). I always thought Morrighan was fooling your character the whole time since she only helps your character when its in her best interest but bails and turns on your character when you become too strong. Also Cichol makes her look bad a few times (her lying about TNN and Erinn, her using the partholonians, fomorians, and later you).

How do you know about Dana? Was that from somewhere in Mabi or Vindi? You seem to know alot about this stuff and your making me hungry for potential spoilers.

Also what do you mean by Macha already resurrected, because I thought Macha only appeared in Saga because of some Lia Fail ritual with Millia? We never see her until this time.

I never thought about Triona being Macha's daughter, but it seems possible since I don't think Triona is ever mentioned by Elatha or Neamhain, or mentioned as directly descending from Neamhain(Haven't played the generation in 6+ years so don't quote me on this).

You must really like Shakespheare XD.

In Mabi she definitely tricks the Milletian, but only once the Milletian becomes too powerful. She really likes the Milletian until they gain too much divine power and she's afraid that they'll destroy the world, which is the reason why she even sends Bella to sacrifice herself - Morrighan cares about Erinn more than anything else, but not its inhabitants as she has constantly inspired the Fomors and Humans to kill each other to keep them from getting too powerful and she even wiped out the Partholonians just because their ruler misused a divine weapon.

But in Vindi, not much is known about her (other than that she told the Fomors that paradise would be brought to them if they killed all humans, and told the Humans the same thing but with Fomors, and both of those prophecies were lies), just that Tieve becomes possessed by her. S3 goes into more detail but it's non-canon as far as I'm concerned because it retconned a lot of stuff since it's the same writers that retconned a lot of Mabi content, and both games now have serious plotholes.


In Irish mythology, Tuatha de Danaan refers to the Gods themselves, and the humans that worshiped them adopted that name because their Gods used it. Welsh Mythology's Don - which may be male or female - is an ancestor figure in the Mabinogion and may or may not have been divine. In Mabinogi, only the Uladh Humans are called Tuatha de Danaan.

Since Tuatha de Danaan means Children of Dana (or Danu), and since Dana is a Proto-Indo-European deity, it's reasonable to claim that the Irish Gods descended from her. In Mabi, she could either be the Deity that created/brought the Uladh humans OR the human ancestor of them, but I doubt the latter since she'd likely be Partholonian in that case and it's believed that Neamhain could create living races, too.

In my headcanon, I suspect Dana was the deity that created the Uladh humans, but that took too much out of her and she "died" to some extent. That would explain why Nao, who has the power of a Deity, is still Mari with memory problems rather than a different person, as that puts her inside Dana's body rather than the other way around. This also conveniently gives an excuse for never, ever, ever featuring Dana in the game. Although that theory doesn't explain why a Deity like Nao is human-sized rather than god-sized, as if she was a Deity possessing a Human body that got as tall as a human she'd still be a tall child instead of a short grown woman.

EDIT: It was revealed sometime in Chapter 4 that the Tuatha de Danaan descended from the Partholonians, but I'm not sure if this is before or after Genesis. I define everything pre-Genesis as canon, everything post-Genesis as non-canon.


Macha shouldn't have even been at Lia Fail in the first place. Millia isn't a divine being so even if she was used as a conduit that wouldn't have brought Macha to this world from another one. In Vindi it's explained that the Gods are from a different plane (Tir Na Nog) and have to be summoned into this one through complex processes, like possessing someone's body, but even then that body would eventually fade into Tir Na Nog rather than staying on Erinn. The only reason why they can move around freely in Erinn is because Tir Na Nog was fused into Erinn at the end of Vindi S1, but that doesn't automatically open up the floodgates for deities to come in - they still need a full medium to get here, and Millia's power technically wasn't enough to do that, meaning that Macha must have already been in this world.

With that said, it's obvious that she was in this world already. She fell in love with someone in Emain Macha and then killed herself and turned into a curse that doomed the world according to the legend. The only way for her to come back was if she didn't really kill herself, which makes sense as the curse got removed...which in fantasy magic theory a divine world-ending curse can only be dispelled by the essence/power of the person that cast it, so it's likely she removed the curse herself. This means she was just enjoying her solitude until some idiots tried messing with Lia Fail (the real one in Saga, not the fake one in S3). In Saga I believe it's said she's forced to protect Lia Fail but doesn't say why; correct me if I'm wrong since I didn't play through it.


Shakespeare's okay. I just feel there was a lot of wasted potential, especially since the Globe Theatre style stories were amazing remakes and the other two generations on Belvast were rushed and barely had anything to do with their respective plays. I don't understand why they didn't incorporate the super famous A Midsummer Night's Dream or why they didn't put Tempest and Pericles in Belvast since they would have fit there perfectly. And the For Golvan being For Shakespeare is a thing I noticed, making me wonder if the Live version was Shakespeare trying to make plays about himself and Bella.

What exactly is "god-sized"?

In Mabinogi, the Gods & Goddessses are slightly smaller than fully grown humans.

For comparison:

Dang, really? I though they were taller. Back in G1-3 I remember them being taller than humans... Well, I guess there's no size discrepancy, then.

In comparison to the main characters (Tarlach, Ruiari, and Mari), sure, they were children thus smaller.

I'm in the camp thinking that Nao is fused with Danu.

Danu is mentioned exactly once in all of Mabinogi, as the creater of Star Hill.

And i don't believe all of the people of the Tuatha are refugees from Partholon.

Most of them came from the other world before it fused with Erinn.

It could be that Danu perished during the Conjuction and her people that she shielded through it were protected on Star Hill but lost their memory of the Event and Morrighan decided to take them for herself.

The OTHER humans being the ones Neahmain created in Iria after she'd left the other world due to getting sick of all their bullshit and wanting to make her own land and peoples but were the tribe who broke the old laws (the tribe that used to live in the abandon section of Iria where the explorer's base camp is) and stole the Heart of Coracle to discover alchemy and the power of the gods, eventually fleeing Iria under the Leadership of Partholon when the removal of the Heart of Coracle jump-started the Rage of Dragons.

The Heart was lost during the evacuation but they managed to create a new one after arriving in Uladh that became the Altar of Caliburn.

They eventually come to Uladh and form Partholon the city. When the Conjunction Happens, Morrighan finds humans already in Erinn and is appalled and their perversion of the birthright of the Gods and makes a deal with Cichol to let the Fomors escape their dying world and share Erinn if they'll help dispose of the Partholonians.

Their creation and discovery of the Soul Stream likely happened before the Conjunction as it seems the soul stream was necessary to combine the worlds together. Which is around the same time Shakesphere arrives in Erinn.

She of course backstabs and blames everything on the Fomors and unites the People of Danu and Survivors of Partholon that Shakesphere saved and leads them into the first Fomor War, and even gets the other Gods involved as well.

During this time Math builds his mana Siphons (that eventually become Math and Rabbie dungeons) around village of Dunbarton and uses that power to fuel his spells to hold the enemy at Bay at Gairech Hills while the survivors of the first clash at Sen Mag flee into Fiodh, led by Lugh (who due to wielding Brionac during this period is likely a survivor of Partholon, which learning of Morrighan's manipulation to destroy his people could explain his gradual descent into being to adamantly Anti-God).



Lugh meets with the Queen of the Fey (actually Neahmain in disguise, who has come to Ulaidh to vacation after that whole mess in Iria) and the two form a relationship in exchange for letting the humans settle there. Elathia is born sometime during this period in secret and Lugh becomes Neamhain's Champion, the Knight of Light.

After regrouping they push against the Fomors, during which Macha falls for Lugh as well, and in a secret meeting, to two begin a relationship and she pulls her support from the war, though not before Crom Cruiach killed Naudha. Morrighan is forced to intervene directly and uses her full might to banish the Fomors from Erinn and create a lock to keep them out but is greatly weakened in the process.

Morrighan is called to task for sparking this whole war by Aton Cimeni, and put in detention and forbidden from getting directly involved with the humans again (though Cichol takes advantage of her weakened state and imprisons her more fully).

During the interrim aftermath, Macha realizes that Lugh doesn't love her and feels betrayed and kills herself with the events becoming twisted and vague via retellings until we get the story of Emain Macha, though not before producing Triona who Lugh takes in.

Like-wise during this time Humanity breaks their treaty with Fey Queen, and she prepares to destroy all of humanity in Erinn similar to her cursing of the Elves and Giants before, but Lugh goes before her and calms her down, limiting the curse to only Fiodh itself. And both disappear.

During the 2nd Fomor war, Lugh reappears but is appalled at how corrupt humanity has become with their greed and lust for more power and simply abandons them once the war is over and goes to join the Fomors and becomes Morgant.

The tragedy of Emain Macha happens afterward due to the still young child Triona being discovered by Redire and Morgant coming to collect her.


The rest is pretty straight forward.

Morgant is furious about Cichol sacrificing Elathia and Triona's eventual death is the last straw and he declares open war on them all, though he admitted much earlier that Cichol was merely a tool for his own ambition and he had no particular loyalty to the Fomors.

with the Region Editor in the works, perhaps making a proper continuation to the storyline of G12 could be a thing? *hint* idk, I still wish I could slap Cichol....I still wish I could fully steal his powers...kill all the gods....Morrighan included...idk...

. _. perhaps one day....one day...