Iria random dungeons
Posted at 06-20-18, 03:30 am Link | #1
Spooky4Us

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So i was talking to abunch of people in global on a way to make iria fun, iria itself was suppose to be a big place to explore, while u can explore for the random treasure chest ( that have a piss poor loot table) that about ends it in all honesty. So my idea is to put in additional "Forgotten dungeon" to have more fun in iria, each different place can use a different tile set, in deserts use the tile set from the starting elf dungeon, in snowy icy places use vales starter dungeon, everywhere else just use karu/maiz. regardless u could just use all karu/maiz to make it easier. Dungeons would not be long around the same length as alby normal, but with different difficulties of enemies with different rewards from the end chests. being that the dungeons are short the items for rewards shouldn't be stupid amazing like 58522566k worth of gold, but good enough to make it worth it such as Int magic pages, rare-ish blacksmithing/tailoring manuels, along with USEFUL trash items like different amounts of herbs, hp 100s, enchanted items (different levels of rarity depending on the enchanted item).

A player would find these forgotten places by searching with L-rods just like the other exploration things, and you have a certain amount of time to enter before they disappear.
Posted at 06-20-18, 05:55 am Link | #2
LazyFae
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So, alby normal length, and decent rewards? Nah. I mean, that giant snow zombie or w/e, at end of par normal, has a chance to drop 100 pots, but the run itself is mostly junk. The rewards need to fit time invested and difficulty. A short dungeon, unless you have like 20 spawns consecutively in one room or super tanky bosses, will be cleared fast. Reward should be dumbed down to fit, unless you add length or difficulty. If you add difficulty, you can bet lower levels won't be happy. Add length, while it's a reason to have better rewards, oft times people won't be interested when the novelty wears off.
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Posted at 06-20-18, 07:44 pm Link | #3
Spooky4Us

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sorry that's what i meant they wont be like white spider easy to kill monsters, they would start at reasonably strong for a smaller reward then if u would get monsters that are very strong with better then the previous dungeons reward. of course theres no direct balance ive thought about so its not like i have a list of specific items that can be the rewards or specific ideas for the monsters, but the alby normal was an example of length, not the way its laid out with 2 enemies which drop key, into room with more mobs which drop boss key, and the next two rooms are just locked door rooms, it would be more like a gauntlet where each room has a guarenteed fight, and the bosses would need to decently strong aswell, in my head u would have to have like 3 different spawn/loot tables and when u enter the dungeon which one u pick that way u dont have a chance to get the best item u can recieve from the dungeons on the version with the weakest monsters. thats really the only way i can think of balancing them, even if it turns into a gimmic that people get tired of it will still b content that sets this server apart from live making it alittle bit more different and unqiue. and even more it gives the players something more to do. right now all i hear people doing on a regular basis are rabbie, blood on the water for levels, burial ground or w/e its called. i mean imo anything that adds more things to do that will make more people have fun the better.
Posted at 06-21-18, 04:49 pm Link | #4
LazyFae
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Hm, yes and no. I've played various games. The pointless running, yeah, it gets frustrating. At the same time, the mobs being spread out some, without insta aggro across the map, does give you time to recover if you're say, low on hp/mp/stam, move things to/from pets, change equips, or if you need to afk for something.

Now, the solution i know some people will think of to cover this, and which nexon did in the past on vindictus before patching it out, is to give a wait time between spawns. NO! When you get strong enough, you'll clear the spawns and be waiting, and it SUCKS! A more controllable wait time beats a pre-determined wait, and is far less frustrating.

My personal preference, would be to honestly have consecutive spawns in one room. The cor dungeons actually make a wonderful example with one of their switch rooms, of what i'd like. Scatter some switches in the room, to open the door i'd prefer something similar to that. Allow multiple spawns that players control. Consecutive spawn groups as you kill the mobs in a room would be acceptable, just lower on my preferred list is all.

Also, difficulty vs rewards does not carefully balanced, and the players need to be able to have a rough idea of what they're getting into before entering dungeons. For example, i'm at roughly 400 total. I can handle solo things like ciar int HM without a bunch of deaths, if i play careful. May still have a few, but you could handle that without NAO if you needed, just using statue revive+HW, because my deaths are so infrequent. However, despite my confidence at dungeons of that level, i still have no clear for something like peaca, due to wights. 100% resistance mobs would be an issue. While, alternatively, they could have a better reward, it could lock certain players/builds out. And nothing could be worse for growing players, than someone who say, is barely INT SM level, getting mobs of their difficulty, and then suddenly getting a couple HM mobs.


I'm not so much against adding dungeons, i'd love more combat options, but things really do need smoothed out. Both in terms of considering the impact the rewards could have on market/gameplay and how well the content would be received by players of varying groups and playstyles. Least, that's how i'm looking at everything.
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Posted at 06-21-18, 07:33 pm Link | #5
Spooky4Us

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i can respect your concerns and im not saying they arnt valid but its not like every time u go into the dungeon u end up with super rare stuff, theres still a hint of rng where u end up with only gold just larger amount then a normal dungeon.

the difficulty could be worked out, in similarities to how shadowmissions work, if there was a way to pick which difficulty of the dungeon u would b going into that would give the player a choice where "im not strong but i wana do this" or " i may be able to handle the next level up so lets try that"

and with the dungeon entrance only open for a few minutes people who arnt close by wont be able to just warp and go to it, causing u to have to actively hunt for each dungeon which could b a problem in itself if they are too easy or too hard to find.

so the RNG for it to not only have the possiblity to not drop anything super expensive with having to find them cuts down on the chances of flooding the market with millions of gold worth of product.

and to go to the beginning of your post the dungeon rooms would work similar to how they are now in each room, the mobs wouldnt be spawned in already because there wouldnt be a locked door unless u would to mix things up take your second idea there and make each pillar u hit spawn some mobs to kill with a chance of droping a key to open the door int he same room the pillars are in, causing the amount of fighting to be different every room/ every dungeon depending on how many of these kind of rooms u would introduce per dungeon. otherwise leaving the dungeon rooms to work similar to how they do now where a second wave of enemies only spawn after the last enemy of the first wave has been defeated would allow for a breather if u had multiple people in your party. but even if u didnt u would just have to fight on like u do now till the last enemy of the last wave has been defeated then u can rest before tackling the next room.

im not trying to make these mini dungeons into few rooms but a long time to clear them, i would hope the balance of each difficulty using idea above here dealing with something similar to how u pick shadow mission difficulty would work out to only a few minutes for each room with dungeons from 3-5 rooms. of course that is if your are dealing with the correct difficulty for your ability level, so if ur level 250 doing int level dungeon it would work out but not if your 250 doing HM difficulty cause your crazy.
Posted at 06-21-18, 07:50 pm Link | #6
LazyFae
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For clarity's sake, and since you did expand a bit, i do agree with the general principle. I'd like the finer points to be discussed a bit more, but the idea overall appeals to me.
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Posted at 06-22-18, 01:46 am Link | #7
Spooky4Us

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what are finer points to you? and then we can work them over for fun
Posted at 06-22-18, 06:13 am Link | #8
LazyFae
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I think most of them we've lightly discussed, things like spawn mechanics, difficulty level, and drops. Depending on how it's set up, mob drops could be tweaked, or add an extra room with chests and allow mobs to have a chance to drop keys, similar to how normal dungeons have chest rooms and you get keys from mobs in the orb rooms.

The duration of how long the dungeon entrance stays open, and how easily identifiable the difficulty of the dungeon is before entering is somewhat important to. Say i got 2-3 people i want to play with and we all want to do the dungeon. Well obviously it's not a 100% chance that we're gonna have the dungeon show up every exploration attempt. And following around someone for 10 minutes while they try to find it doesn't sound fun, conversely splitting up could make it difficult for friends to join you in time as we only have one channel so it's not like we can search the same spot across multiple channels.

A short duration for the entrance is all well and fine, but i would at least like enough time to be able to be like "I found an exploration dungeon, anyone want to give me a hand?" and have enough time to get a response as well as use a summon cap, yes i'm actually suggesting a summon cap as a reason to keep the dungeon appearance reduced, and let the person join me while feeling i can leisurely enter without going "Well, you took too long so i'll have to find a new dungeon." and people leaving because screw the wait.

This is also why identifying the difficulty ahead of time is important, so i don't invite a lv 100 into a lv 500 dungeon. Cuz if i legit want something out of the dungeon and need a hand, that's going to massively backfire. And with some rng application on that dungeon, that could turn into a tedious task. The more RNG involved, the worse it can get.

I suppose if you want to just make it a solo dungeon, you could circumvent most of that, but at the same time people would get bored repeatedly solo grinding the same thing, when they also have to spend their time searching for it before hand, and the rng issue will still apply, just no frustration of dealing with others.

Again, mobs inside are a big deal to me as well. No one wants to waste, say 10 minutes of their time in a dungeon, only to suddenly get thrown a mob with immunities to the skills you use. I can smash real good now, but that means nothing in the face of a wight. Similarly, i don't care how good of a mage you are, when a ghost shows up. All you're gonna be doing is trying to keep it from casting, and basically nothing else. This is a great late/end game tool, and i'm not opposed to it, but if something like it is used, then we would need a way to know to expect these mobs. For example, have the dungeons in zardine region have a chance at peaca mobs, or maybe include a peaca mob as a boss. Meanwhile, Rano could be rundal mobs or something. It's not a clear cut announcement on what you'd see each run, possibly, but you would have a rough idea of what to expect. You'd think 'okay, i'm not strong enough to handle peaca mobs yet, so i'll steer clear of zardine dungeons.' While others will be thinking "I'm able to do rundal, but those blasted ship rats are a problem. Better find a meat shield."


I'm sure there's various ways to approach the multitude of problems that bother me, but things seem a little foggy on the topic atm. So clearing up what would be acceptable and wouldn't, what is actually desired versus what you'd compromise, as well as how others feel, would be a boon to the topic. And it'd save a lot of exposition.
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Posted at 06-22-18, 06:26 pm Link | #9
Spooky4Us

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i mean to start at the end of your post first, im basically open to all compromises/ideas, this is just a rough idea as a whole.

for the first concern, i feel a 5 minute timer from time the dungeon is discovered to the end would b decent enough, if you plan on doing it with a party, everyone in the party would probably be in the same region so moving to one wouldnt take too long, the other people on the server i mean you could announce it if you wanted to but if you dont then honestly its not like it will matter to people who arnt looking for them, ya know?

as to the difficulty, if you would implement it like a normal dungeon does where theres passes then u could easily pick the difficulty, make the passes buyable from npc like alexina, etc. you could even recieve "elite" or special dungeon passes with different loot etc like theres in the game now by doing cor exploration or something, almost everyone i know does there exploration levels with cor so you could recieve them from voight or however u spell is name.

and i like your idea of different regions dungeons having different mobs in them, but i wasnt intending to have mobs with immunity in the dungeons, the thought crossed my mind but i feel like it would be slightly shitty just as you feel it would be. Im not against using mobs with ping that way u have a chance to be screwed over a tad, but id personally perfer to make it difficult in a different way. use 2 or 3 depending on difficulty different mobs per spawn so each has an option of aggroing on you but not like the jackals in fiodh. xD

i appreciate you talking to me about this in detail. another thing i just thought of because i mentioned the grind of the exploration levels in cor, the exploration for find them and for clearing them could be adjusted so it gives another reason to do them, not making it extremely overpowered but make them like 800-1000 explore exp or something when you clear it, its like turning in one or two relics in cor. just a thought that popped in my head, all the other dungeons in iria give you alittle explore exp aswell
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