Authentic Old-School Mabinogi Experience
Simple small changes, go! Long complicated ones later!
Cylinder Elemental changes.
Grocery Store update:
Knuckles:
Wands and staves: (This would require more time and work I think, so ignore this one for now really, just look at the simple ones first.)
Potions:
New Upgrades: (This one might also take time so ignore it if you want)
Stack size:
Dungeon Fountain:
Alch Load Time:(Also somewhat long, so ignore and stick to short things, just a thought.)
Rebirth and pets: (Might be long? Not sure how hard this is to do.)
Shadow mission idea: (Again, long and more work, ignore)
Bags:(It's a long one again!)
Arrows:(small I think)
Idea: Gem bag (not a storage bag):
Blacksmithing fix: (not sure if small or even an issue in this version?)
Cooking effect time:(Small?)
Craft-able Camp fire kits: (maybe long?)
Defend/Shield revamp idea (This is long and would take time to code, but not TOO complex):
Meditation: (long?)
Elf Weapon stores: (Small)
Elf stop on loading ranged skills and others: (???)
Antidote Potions (small?):
Arrows (small?):
Transformation looks (Large?):
The great bonus update! idea :(Very long!!!) (also far from done...)
Cylinder Elemental changes.
Grocery Store update:
Knuckles:
Wands and staves: (This would require more time and work I think, so ignore this one for now really, just look at the simple ones first.)
Potions:
New Upgrades: (This one might also take time so ignore it if you want)
Stack size:
Dungeon Fountain:
Alch Load Time:(Also somewhat long, so ignore and stick to short things, just a thought.)
Rebirth and pets: (Might be long? Not sure how hard this is to do.)
Shadow mission idea: (Again, long and more work, ignore)
Bags:(It's a long one again!)
Arrows:(small I think)
Idea: Gem bag (not a storage bag):
Blacksmithing fix: (not sure if small or even an issue in this version?)
Cooking effect time:(Small?)
Craft-able Camp fire kits: (maybe long?)
Defend/Shield revamp idea (This is long and would take time to code, but not TOO complex):
Meditation: (long?)
Elf Weapon stores: (Small)
Elf stop on loading ranged skills and others: (???)
Antidote Potions (small?):
Arrows (small?):
Transformation looks (Large?):
The great bonus update! idea :(Very long!!!) (also far from done...)
Posted at 03-27-17, 01:58 am Link | #
Knuckles:
The ideal of racially restricted weapons always seemed stupid honestly. Especially for a game like mabi. Advertised to doing whatever you want
Yeah, it's why I want all race restrictions on gear to be removed. Giant weapons could just be 2h for humans and elves, or even changed to single hit 2h weapons for them, haha.
Posted at 03-27-17, 02:14 pm Link | #
gems stacking probably wouldn't work as they're different sizes and the sizes matter.
It would be fine for stuff like small red gems etc, that don't have sizes, though.
It would be fine for stuff like small red gems etc, that don't have sizes, though.
I should probably say that I meant the red, blue, green and silver gems. Haha, woops.
Posted at 03-28-17, 07:32 am Link | #
As far as the master wands/staves go: one of the key features about Mabinogi is player choice, and I'd find it problematic to force high level players to all use the same wand or staff and especially title, the same way I find it problematic that staves are currently so inaccessible in the first place and many wands are unavailable as well.
I do think "CAN equip x title" is a good condition, rather than "IS equipped with x title" though!
I do think "CAN equip x title" is a good condition, rather than "IS equipped with x title" though!
What different variations of staff/wands do you have in mind? or more related to looks of staff/wands?
being able to use all magic skills (even chain casting bolts or adv magic at your disposal) without having to
change wands/staves all the time would be fun.
But I do stress "magic damage reduction" and/or "pure mage play" (mainly magic as your role),other requirment's to do away with Opness
the titles mentioned could help or perhaps something else... something even better.
I simply think magic should be more like alchemy. It should allow us to use whatever magic, despite the wand with drawbacks in damage and upgrades not effecting that magic as much. There's no reason that magic needs to be so overly specialized. It just feels wrong compared to everything else in the game. I don't think using new wands or titles should be this fix either. Simply changing it to let us use any magic with any wand/staff would benefit those who wish to spec/go pure mage, and those of us who want to hybrid. I do think blaze should be slightly nerfed and made a hybrid skill you can use with any melee weapon but for much less AoE explosion and dmg, and simply more melee dmg on hit. I never understood why a metal rod could use it but not a mace..
Posted at 03-29-17, 02:54 pm Link | #
I like the idea, but I feel like this could be more like a very basic core mechanic and not a complex skill.
If you go the complex skill route, I say, based on rank, that a % of the damage should go to your health instead. Something like, rank N, 35% goes to health instead and at rank 1, only 10%. This keeps it from being far too powerful and making sense, seeing that with defend, you still always take damage unless it's a large shield.
Instead:
If you go the complex skill route, I say, based on rank, that a % of the damage should go to your health instead. Something like, rank N, 35% goes to health instead and at rank 1, only 10%. This keeps it from being far too powerful and making sense, seeing that with defend, you still always take damage unless it's a large shield.
Instead:
Posted at 03-29-17, 03:13 pm Link | #
What skill sets are and getting and what skill sets are we not getting?
What base changes are we getting/aren't getting?
What base changes are we getting/aren't getting?
Posted at 04-01-17, 12:15 am Link | #
I don't see the reason for mana evaporation either, but its part of vanilla mabinogi and there's a very vocal minority who want to keep it.
Mana evap is there for lore reasons and as a way to punish magic, as the first director hated magic. It's the kind of thing that makes sense in the lore, but gets in the way of gameplay and should be either reworked or removed.
This is similar. There's no reason for gear to really degrade by simply wearing them. They already degrade from EVERYTHING ELSE, getting hit, using them, I think rain was proven to increase passive dura loss at some point? Don't quote me on that last one, could be totally wrong. Furthermore, this feels like a system that might have been implemented for realism but ended up being exploited for money, as gachas used to spit out unreparable items (and there are still plenty of unfixable stuff in live) that will eventually die from nothing, forcing you to try for more if they aren't limited time.
Posted at 04-03-17, 06:07 am Link | #
Making likeability potions is already a possibility. http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Likeability_Potion
Gold mushrooms spawn at a rate of two a day and bloody herbs are probably one of the more common herb patches to come across.
Gold mushrooms spawn at a rate of two a day and bloody herbs are probably one of the more common herb patches to come across.
Maybe they could increase their effect some more? There's no reason Gordon should need 6... >.>
I get where this guy is coming from though, haha. I thought it won't take so many rings for Gordons shop, so when I was running too low on cash to afford all the books, I stopped to make some money with friends. After a few hours I came back to find....5 inventories of rings of progress were COMPLETELY gone, he forgot me in only a few in game days...like...bro, you people can keep my ptj for several IRL days before it starts to degrade but you can't remember me on a personal level for more than an ingame week?
Posted at 04-03-17, 08:53 pm Link | #
It would be nice if we also didn't lose summon time while playing as a pet, didn't' get the "I should let it do whatever it wants" message while playing as them that makes your pet cancel any loaded skill, combat or not, and let pets do more things.
Posted at 04-07-17, 01:22 am Link | #
I'd like to turn the conversation away from magic for a second and revisit Windmill training requirements.
This skill is obviously pretty integral to the success of most characters but the training, even with 2x skill and 2x destiny, is still painstakingly tedious to grind. I think making it so you can get more points from some of the higher scoring objectives is a good way to solve this issue without making R1 WM a free handout.
This skill is obviously pretty integral to the success of most characters but the training, even with 2x skill and 2x destiny, is still painstakingly tedious to grind. I think making it so you can get more points from some of the higher scoring objectives is a good way to solve this issue without making R1 WM a free handout.
Honestly, the best way to handle WM training it to make it so you can get 100 from just using the skill at any rank. Make it take A LOT of WMing, but this way, no mater how high your CP gets cranked up, you always have a way to rank it and never have to go "I must get this rank 1 first no mater what I actually want to do because CP is stupid."
Posted at 04-09-17, 06:03 pm Link | #
I'd like to turn the conversation away from magic for a second and revisit Windmill training requirements.
This skill is obviously pretty integral to the success of most characters but the training, even with 2x skill and 2x destiny, is still painstakingly tedious to grind. I think making it so you can get more points from some of the higher scoring objectives is a good way to solve this issue without making R1 WM a free handout.
This skill is obviously pretty integral to the success of most characters but the training, even with 2x skill and 2x destiny, is still painstakingly tedious to grind. I think making it so you can get more points from some of the higher scoring objectives is a good way to solve this issue without making R1 WM a free handout.
Honestly, the best way to handle WM training it to make it so you can get 100 from just using the skill at any rank. Make it take A LOT of WMing, but this way, no mater how high your CP gets cranked up, you always have a way to rank it and never have to go "I must get this rank 1 first no mater what I actually want to do because CP is stupid."
You want to make it like Live? Cause that's how you make the game a grindfest like Live.
Every since Fighter, the skills stopped being less CP focused and more spam this 1000-3000 times. Yeah WM for elves is basically like that, and a few skills are like that, but I don't want to see a surge of it.
I never said drop the CP, just make a way to not need it for those that just want to rank it as they go later and not need to shit themselves in frustration for ranking ANYTHING ELSE first. In live they make it a REQUIREMENT to spam the skill thousands of times. It's not an option like I'm suggesting.
The reason mages feel a little gimped out by MP pots is because of GOD AWFUL mana regin with meditation, mana evap, and the fact that most monsters in the early portion of the game drop MP 10s while everything else is dropping 30s for hp and sp. All of my characters have well over 5 stacks of HP30s and a few stacks of SP 30s but rarely will I have any amount of MP pots that aren't 10s. Hell, I have gotten more MP 10s from afk fishing on my human than anything else.
Making pots have value is nice (well I mean, the 30s spam of Hp and SP due to the 2x drop rate though...), and I feel like that should stay. We don't need mana pots in the shops, if ANYTHING MP10s sold for a similar price to the hp and sp 30s they sell. I would suggest allowing us to make those ME or SE (whatever it was in live) MP pots using the mushrooms. They're just the ones that lower the pot poisoning rate by a bit for a lil extra work.
Magic feels very "Why am I doing this..." early on (similar to elf range imo~ Missmisssmissss) but turns fun by the time you get an int magic (normally imo) Everything about it is EXTREMELY pricey and time consuming compared to the other play styles, even alch has cost my giant less, and it doesn't hybrid too well with anything other than it's bolts unless you want to smack something with a wand and lower it's dura faster for a pretty gold piece. The only mage play that truly hybrids well is blaze and melee because a blaze wand isn't all that bad for melee in the first place.
Making pots have value is nice (well I mean, the 30s spam of Hp and SP due to the 2x drop rate though...), and I feel like that should stay. We don't need mana pots in the shops, if ANYTHING MP10s sold for a similar price to the hp and sp 30s they sell. I would suggest allowing us to make those ME or SE (whatever it was in live) MP pots using the mushrooms. They're just the ones that lower the pot poisoning rate by a bit for a lil extra work.
Magic feels very "Why am I doing this..." early on (similar to elf range imo~ Missmisssmissss) but turns fun by the time you get an int magic (normally imo) Everything about it is EXTREMELY pricey and time consuming compared to the other play styles, even alch has cost my giant less, and it doesn't hybrid too well with anything other than it's bolts unless you want to smack something with a wand and lower it's dura faster for a pretty gold piece. The only mage play that truly hybrids well is blaze and melee because a blaze wand isn't all that bad for melee in the first place.
As it stands right now, Melee is able to easily buy and spam stam potions so they're able to use skills more often than usual, Magic has been thrown in the mud and stomped on for the entirety of this servers lifetime. We get Mana Evaporation, I don't see Melee losing stam when they switch their weapon, same with Alchemy. It's almost impossible to enjoy this game when I can't even do simple bolt spells without having to farm for Mana pots while Melee simply purchases stam pots and is ready to go. I voted for yes because I hate seeing one class have the upper hand against another.
That's somewhat one sided. You say upper hand, but you're not pointing out the strengths and weaknesses of different classes. Yes, magic has mana evaporation, pathetic recovery rate, and has to pretty much rely on pots. No, how it works is not the same as the other classes really. Bolts are cheaper, but in return specialize in single target. Int magic is meant for multiple target, and not set up to just spam on a single target, in return longer cast times and heavier mp drain. I mean, let a mage charge fireball before opening a chest in a dungeon, now compare his damage to a windmiller. The difference should be obvious. Mage, while it may be slower at preparing and heavier on draining, is just better crowd control for the most part. Thunder has insane stun at r1, ice spear has the shatter effect, and fireball is massive area and high damage potential.
There's also the matter of each spell is an element, and there are enemies who are strong or weak against different elements, letting you play this to your advantage, even if not a game changer. Yes, melee and archery can apply elementals to their gear, but say they have all ice and go in a Theatre Mission. If they find ice spiders, they're gonna have a difficult time clearing without taking off pretty much everything but their weapons, or unless they have multiple elemental types on them, able to change at a moment's notice. And in return, they take a hit that much harder as well.
Point should be clear enough without going too much into archery, or even alchemy. The strengths and weaknesses of each needs to be considered before making a change. Having easy access to mp pots, pretty much everyone would be mage in a few months just cuz it'd be the best room clearer, and the only notable drawback, after you're able to keep a steady income of gold, would be mana evaporation, which won't be a big deal if you keep pots and are doing mostly mage, and cast times. I've seen it on live, i've done it on live. Never considered myself a mage, but as updates introduce new skills and change old one some, i'll branch into those skills for stats or test their effectiveness in different situations, then use the skills when i feel they're efficient. Which, after magic renovation, led to me using magic for most everything, despite the fact i didn't build up with the intent of being mage, it just kinda happened.
The problem most people really have with magic is the fact that unlike range, melee, and even alch, the early game is slow, expensive/time consuming, and punishing. If you take out using a wand and thus losing some of your damage and range, then it's still slow and expensive/time consuming.
Holyshit this is alot...
Posted at 04-17-17, 08:33 pm Link | #
Here is the way I see it: each "class" has a weak point. Mages have Mana evaporation, Warriors have 10% health loss on windmill, archers can miss EVERY SINGLE SHOT AT 99% WHEN THE GAME LAGS!
This game was designed to be difficult to play/learn/master over other MMORPGs. Mana evaporation only applies to wands, wands are only NEEDED to cast advance magic (I know they boost normal spells).
"Fixing" this is a slippery slope to easy mode for this game, if that is what you want you can always play on the normal Nexon server with instant load skills, armor skills, difficulty nerfs across the board, all day travel at moon gates, Fighter class (stupidly OP), Gunslinger class, Puppets, more dragons, ETC.
I have a lvl 2k+ character on the Nexon server, I prefer a game that doesn't hand me everything for free. I say keep the mana evap. I can still cast Fire/Ice/Lightning bolt with a Bow equipped and not worry about my mana disappearing.
This game was designed to be difficult to play/learn/master over other MMORPGs. Mana evaporation only applies to wands, wands are only NEEDED to cast advance magic (I know they boost normal spells).
"Fixing" this is a slippery slope to easy mode for this game, if that is what you want you can always play on the normal Nexon server with instant load skills, armor skills, difficulty nerfs across the board, all day travel at moon gates, Fighter class (stupidly OP), Gunslinger class, Puppets, more dragons, ETC.
I have a lvl 2k+ character on the Nexon server, I prefer a game that doesn't hand me everything for free. I say keep the mana evap. I can still cast Fire/Ice/Lightning bolt with a Bow equipped and not worry about my mana disappearing.
The problem with this 'weak point' is that WM is not a requirement for melee players. It is VERY useful, yes, but not required to play melee. The only time WM is ever REQUIRED is for a few bosses that level up if you don't WM spam them. Other than that, you NEVER HAVE to wm. Not to mention that the -10% isn't much of a weakness at all. For 10% of your health you can use I frames to dodge an attack that would do FAR more and even make a monster wait on your I frames to end while you load defend to counter it's melee attacks, or some other skill that you can load during the animation. Take further into account that with 2x server drop rates and you get hp30s much more commonly and early on than mp30s (Most early mobs drop MP10s while dropping HP and/or SP 30s) and that -10% health is usually covered in 1-2 presses of the h key.
Ranges weakness is a mix of pure luck and connection to the server that I have never agreed with. Even if we got 100% aim like in Live (I think it's actually +3% atm if you reach 70% meaning you can get 100%) you can still miss from now actually being at x aim % or even in range to shoot. There are plenty of times where you will miss every single shot because you are actually not in range at all but the game is showing you in range.
Magics weakness is far larger on a base level. Without using a wand, or a much harder to acquire at the moment stave, you are locked out of five whole skills. Even using a single wand type will lock you out of two other skills. You also lose all upgrades to make your three basic spells stronger as well if you chose not to use a wand. Magic also requires time to charge for everything. Meanwhile WM takes a second to load and has a rather large AoE by rank 1 for a nice chunk of damage. Crash shot takes a bit of time to load and aim but also has a decent AoE and damage to it.
On a final note, magic, unlike any other play style, tries its best to force you to hug one element and do nothing but that one element, while melee and range do not force you to stick to one weapon type or one skill. Even alchemy doesn't force you to use one element. You can power up no elements with a normal cylinder, or power up one and weaken the rest BUT still be able to use them all.
Removing mana evap, while not lore friendly, is gameplay friendly. Taking lore friendly methods to fix it would be better but require more work where other things could be worked on. EX: Giving meditation a passive of reducing mana evap based on rank, or/and even doing the same to a much smaller degree with magic mastery.
Posted at 04-18-17, 10:20 pm Link | #
I don't even know where to start with this... Mana evaporation exists because the first director behind mabinogi hated magic and weaved a lore reason into why it's stupid. I'll hand it to him, it's a neat way to get your hate across. Further that with the long RNG based drop quests and high repair costs with decent rates and the fact that meditation, at any rank, is literally worthless, and wooohboy, what a good set up.
"Preventing you from easily hybridizing" you mean like...literally every other skill set? Holyshit, I guess switching from a bow to sword better nef my dex by 75% for 5-10 minutes! That'll sure make me think twice about doing two styles of play I enjoy!
Never, EVER, use that chain cast excuse. That is, no mater what, a BUG that should be fixed. Everyone can say "Oh, mana evap is a lore reason!" So what's the lore behind chain cast, that would normally cost mp for each bolt loaded, suddenly NOT NEEDING the mp if I don't have enough...? Not one? Oh, well, that sucks. I will never see this as anything other than a bug that was never bothered to be fixed, as it makes no sense lore or game-play wise.
Also yeah, manashield isn't a mage skill. That's a joke. That's a skill for everyone who doesn't use their mana constantly. As a pure mage, it's sorta trash. As a hybrid, it's sorta nice, as ANYONE ELSE that doesn't even touch magic, it's glorious...which is weird but I guess okay.
Sadly the bonus is really minor outside of upgrades, and even then only chain cast for bolts, which is even more of a reason that mana evap is crap... Meanwhile, aside from cylinders, as their skills boost in damage quickly, basic bolts in the early game deal 'eeeh' damage, while even a rank N combat and sword mastery person can dish out 50+ damage with upgraded swords per hit quickly. That takes time, but as repair costs for melee and ranged weapons are much smaller than wands, it's something they'll get from just playing normally instead of trying to save up for it in the early game.
I'm not saying that chain cast mage isn't the only option. Anyone can play how they want, and to be blunt, the int magics do not hybrid well honestly. Thunder locks you to the wand, IS, FB, and TH all cause displacement lag if you dare move while they explode/strike. It's just a little silly that a bow or cylinder can be freely swapped out for a melee weapon (or each other) with no downside what so ever, but if you wana take 30(25?) seconds to launch a fireball and swap to a bow or some swords or a cylinder or just your fist or a different wand to take out stranglers (which there will probably be plenty/a few), you get punched in the face with a massive penalty.
Posted at 04-21-17, 02:08 am Link | #
I think, after looking over some of this, that I might have an idea, or a few that work together to remedy this problem?
Mana evap upgrades are complete trash and should be buffed to be around 20-30% depending on the element, that's one step. (Maybe make them only require 2 slots for that instead of 3 for the abysmally small amount they get now?)
Meditation
Mana evap upgrades are complete trash and should be buffed to be around 20-30% depending on the element, that's one step. (Maybe make them only require 2 slots for that instead of 3 for the abysmally small amount they get now?)
Meditation
Finally,
After consideration I've come around to the idea that improving mitigation methods is a better path to make the game more interesting, instead of outright removing the offending mechanic it can be salvaged. I agree with the above post and appreciate the input from Drahan. I'd love to see something like two or more of the following:
* Some buffing to Meditation which is currently borderline pointless and not worth all the effort to rank up through its difficult quests.
* Improved access to Preservation Stones. Add them to monster drops, put em in shops, and/or provide a less clunky/annoying recipe to create them.
* Improving wand evaporation upgrades would make them actually worth giving up the mana reduction ones for on occasion.
* Improved access to magic weapons that don't evaporate - these would be lesser staves similar to Trinity, or perhaps beginner wands that don't cast int spells but are handy for fusion. I'm not sure if the second one is possible or not, but the first one is, as I've experimented with this.
* Some buffing to Meditation which is currently borderline pointless and not worth all the effort to rank up through its difficult quests.
* Improved access to Preservation Stones. Add them to monster drops, put em in shops, and/or provide a less clunky/annoying recipe to create them.
* Improving wand evaporation upgrades would make them actually worth giving up the mana reduction ones for on occasion.
* Improved access to magic weapons that don't evaporate - these would be lesser staves similar to Trinity, or perhaps beginner wands that don't cast int spells but are handy for fusion. I'm not sure if the second one is possible or not, but the first one is, as I've experimented with this.
Don't quote me on this, but I think the Trinity Staff is possible to obtain, and of course has no mana evaporation.
Trinity is an option yes, but it's not beginner friendly at all, for those that really wana 'mage main', and much MUCH harder to get than any wand as you can't just up and buy it. Lycoris is talking about a 'bolt type' mage weapon meant just for bolts and bolt fusion so magic would have something like...
Hands/any weapon able to cast bolts with no upside to the bolts themselves > 'bolt weapon' type that is used for bolts and bolt fusion > wands that are used for bolts, bolt fusion, blaze, and an int magic > stave that is used for bolts, int magic, and adv magic (Should maybe update it to how it is in live where you can blaze and fusion bolt with it too, unless that is a thing currently. I don't have one or easy access to one to test)
Honestly, sitting here and doing some numbers and junk...Magic is so damn weird to balance. Melee and range use %s for their skills and their base attack uses just the base numbers. Magic uses a min-max for their skills and has no 'base' attack with the 'base' for the formula coming from a %.
Rank E ice bolt loses in damage to (not even counting in rank E combat mastery) base gladius damage in damage and how fast you can pull off the damage. Then loses further to WM and smash at rank E. Combined with the fact that SP comes back so much easier and faster than MP (even at night!) Ranged normal attack only takes .8 seconds to load for a few points less damage min (6 points) but beats it by a max but that's hard to see the trade off because of aim % and aim speed (also not even counting ranged attack) Even if you fully upgrade it for cc+5, ignoreing the GLITCH, a fully upgraded gladius for damage out damages it faster and just rank E Wm and smash also out damage it. Go up to rank 9 and Ice bolt finally wins...against rank E melee skills that will also cost less to use and follow up into assault slash sometimes for even more damage in a combo. Bolts just seem so...not good on their own at all both base early and mid game..
Posted at 04-21-17, 07:09 pm Link | #
Okay so..I'm not going to touch any of the other points, but...
Icebolt is for utility.
lightningbolt is the bread and butter damage of a mage
firebolt is the largedamage+knockback for a mage.
This is not addressing the damage or balance, etc. Just..I wouldn't use icebolt for your comparison, as damage really isn't the 'goal' of icebolt. Its usage comes from being able to have five projectiles loaded up to quickly stun enemies/force them to behave certain ways.
I'm not trying to start any kind of argument over anything here, just.. you might want to use lightningbolt in your examples.
Icebolt is for utility.
lightningbolt is the bread and butter damage of a mage
firebolt is the largedamage+knockback for a mage.
This is not addressing the damage or balance, etc. Just..I wouldn't use icebolt for your comparison, as damage really isn't the 'goal' of icebolt. Its usage comes from being able to have five projectiles loaded up to quickly stun enemies/force them to behave certain ways.
I'm not trying to start any kind of argument over anything here, just.. you might want to use lightningbolt in your examples.
Sadly, LB falls behind even more actually. Aside from the knock down on a cc+2 if there's no other foe in range, or a mass AoE spread for a damage cut, which I don't even begin to know how to read into that for game balance on judging what's better. I haven't added in the elemental masteries, but as I'm sure we're all aware, magic is the most costly in it's own skill set compared to any other set regarding AP. If rank 9 ice bolt with a cc+4 wand doesn't beat a fully upgraded gladius and rank E smash and WM (without even factoring in combat mastery), and rank 9 LB doesn't come close in comparison, then I don't know what to say honestly. "Just rank even more things" to beat low ranks and a single upgraded sword (that you start with so all you have to do is upgrade it over time) is crazy.
One thing I'm noticing that really nails magic in the head is needing 20 int for any effect on the damage. From ranking a few of the bolts to rank 9 (not all of them, just using one at a time as an example) you still fall short of a base +20int by a few int. Meanwhile with some melee and ranged skills, by the time you hit rank 9 you get +2-6 damage. Sure in the end that +5% damage from +100 int adds up, but it really makes the early game feel so low compared to other skill sets. Argh, I don't know what to say about this. Focusing on early game for getting into magic while keeping late game not crazy strong by altering early game. What could even be done?
Posted at 04-22-17, 03:45 am Link | #
I think a good point for them being balanced is the range of everything. Magic bolts have 1200 range (+200 with wand), windmill is 300 Rf-6/400 R5-2/500 R1, smash is 170 (normal attack range for humans). Archery is 1700-2500 (but lets ignore archery for now).
Lets assume fully upgraded items (ignore money and MP/SP costs)
Rank 1 cc+4 firebolt (also rank 1 fire mastery) is ~375-675 damage per shot (before stats/items)
Rank 1 cc+4 lightning bolt (R1 mastery) is ~55-165 damage per shot up to 5 enemies (before stats/items)
Rank 1 cc+4 Icebolt (R1 mastery) is ~85-95 damage per shot, 5 shots (before stats/items)
Rank 1 Smash full upgraded Gladius (rank 1 combat mastery/sword mastery) is ~160-410 damage per hit (before stats/items)
Rank 1 Windmill full upgraded Gladius (rank 1 combat mastery/sword mastery) is ~80-205 damage per spin (before stats/items)
Fire bolt/smash is 2 second load time. Ice/Lightning bolt is 1.5 second load time. Windmill is .8 sec load time for half of smash's damage and almost 3x range aoe.
Maybe the bolt spell are weaker than melee in the early game, but late game I think they win. Even if you double the melee damage due to dual wielding, the 8 times range more that makes up for the damage potential (in my opinion).
Lets assume fully upgraded items (ignore money and MP/SP costs)
Rank 1 cc+4 firebolt (also rank 1 fire mastery) is ~375-675 damage per shot (before stats/items)
Rank 1 cc+4 lightning bolt (R1 mastery) is ~55-165 damage per shot up to 5 enemies (before stats/items)
Rank 1 cc+4 Icebolt (R1 mastery) is ~85-95 damage per shot, 5 shots (before stats/items)
Rank 1 Smash full upgraded Gladius (rank 1 combat mastery/sword mastery) is ~160-410 damage per hit (before stats/items)
Rank 1 Windmill full upgraded Gladius (rank 1 combat mastery/sword mastery) is ~80-205 damage per spin (before stats/items)
Fire bolt/smash is 2 second load time. Ice/Lightning bolt is 1.5 second load time. Windmill is .8 sec load time for half of smash's damage and almost 3x range aoe.
Maybe the bolt spell are weaker than melee in the early game, but late game I think they win. Even if you double the melee damage due to dual wielding, the 8 times range more that makes up for the damage potential (in my opinion).
I agree to a point. The range is nice, but it's not a great trade off early game. The bolts with CC upgrades are very strong, but outside of that they are really lacking, and early game they are REALLY lacking. They need a wand with upgrades to be great unlike melee and range skills that have their damage jump greatly from ranking a skill. Rank E smash is 200% dmg for 2 seconds and with all 10 base stats with just your fists that's 16 max damage which is only a few points shy of rank E ices 21 max. Rank E LB is 46 and clearly wins, though with a much wider damage range, and firebolt clearly wins with 27max and wins harder with a full charge. The second you put a everyday short sword in your hand though you get 14-32dmg with nearly 80% balance to keep you on the high end.
I guess what some of our gripes with magic are, is there's nothing friendly to it in the start. It's either meh without a wand, or great with a wand which isn't starter friendly. There's no 'simple' weapon for magic to be okay with in the start. I love that it can fit in with range, melee, and even alch, but just mage on it's on early is slow and not rewarding or fun. Then again that's just with bolts. Mana evap and other things like INT magic are still weird subjects due to magic being so weird...
Posted at 04-23-17, 02:27 am Link | #
Can we at least get the timer removed while playing as our pets? That's the one thing holding me back from spending a few hours every once and a while just goofing off as my pet with folks.
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