MabiPro: The Authentic Old-School Mabinogi Experience

First, how does Dual work currently? For normal attack, it's simple.
Swing of weapon 1 = Weapon 1 dmg + Skills bonus (CM and SM) + Str dmg = Weapon 1 dmg. Same for weapon 2. So if you're using two weapons that are exactly the same, like for this example, and base Gladius, you get 15-32. To cut out some calc, we'll be focusing on the max.

32 + 18(CM) + 20(SM) and let's use 50str, so 20str max = 90max. Now, a gladius hits 4 times. So, 90x4 = 360. For sake of simplicity, we'll NOT factor in crit dmg and chance of crit. (Just know, that obviously, because you hit 4 times, you have more chances to crit in a normal attack around.)

But what about skills? Skills are calculated as Str Dmg + Weapon 1 + Weapon 2 = dmg x skill multiplier.

So for this, 20 + (32+18+20) + (32+18+20) = 160dmg. This would result in 800 for smash and 400 for wm.


So, let's get down to the meat of things, shall we? Let's discuss why Dual is far too powerful. How it is the original power creep that no one really questioned and everyone loves. (I'm sure many of you have already turned away, but for those of you who didn't, bravo.)

For this first example. Let us compare two easy to get weapons. Let's stick with the Gladius from before, and now compare it to a 2h weapon, a claymore. This time, we'll max them out with upgrades.

Max Glad is 67dmg. Max Claymore is 93. We'll still use base 50str.

Dual Glad Normal attack around = 67+18+20+20 = 125x4 = 500max dmg potential (and room for more crits)

Dual Glad Smash = 20 + 105 + 105 = 230x5 = 1150max smash dmg potential

Dual Glad WM = 20 + 105 + 105 = 230x2.5 = 800max wm dmg potential

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Claymore normal attack around = 93+18+20+20 = 151x2 = 302max dmg potential.

Claymore smash = 151x6 = 906max smash potential

Claymore wm = 151x2.5 = 377max wm potential


Let's compare.
Dual beats 2h in normal attack by 198dmg.
Dual beats 2h smash by 244dmg.
Dual beast 2h wm by 423dmg.

I will say in advance, that these calcs are for HUMAN. Giant Smash is higher and does beat dual faster. Smash with a 2h DOES beat dual in the end, after it reaches a high enough amount of str dmg. It also beats it by a wide margin by the end. Is that worth the payout of lacking a great deal of dmg in both normal attacks and everyone's bread and butter, WM? Not to mention assault slash? No, not really, unless you're a giant and can pump out smashes faster and for even more dmg.

But I hear you, I'm comparing a basic ass claymore. Well okay, let's go with the highest max damage 2h in the game. The Dragon Fang. HOWEVER it MUST gain a max str roll and has NO OTHER OPTION. It's max is 120 with a max artisan of +70str A highlander claymore (non artisan) is 104, and 108 WITH max artisan. So this is a difference of 16max dmg.

Max Dragon fang is 120dmg (that's with the +28max dmg from it's 70str) So let's throw it in.

120+18+20+20 = 178. That is 1068smash dmg and 445wm damage. Would you look at that, Dual still wins by nearly 2x on the wm, and 82dmg for smash. Wow, the BEST 2h still falls short massively to a standard store bought gladius pair. I didn't even have bring in the unholy hell that is the BEST 1h weapon with it's max roll.


"But enchants! 2h have high max dmg enchants, you're not doing this fair, you're favoring the dual for the sake of your argument." First, if I was doing that I'd be using Max artisan Battle swords to COMPLETELY stomp 2h into the ground. Second, I'm getting there, hold on.



Let's talk enchants. For 1h and 2h, they're simple. For dual? They're a little tricky. They work drastically different. For starters, Max dmg from gear OTHER than the weapon, for the sake of skills, applies it to the STRBASE dmg. If the enchant is on a weapon, it ONLY applies to that weapon. As for with Strength increasing enchants, it effects both.

Now, let's get into the meat and potatoes of this. The BEST max dmg enchants for each weapon type.

1h holds Wyllow and Spike (If we have horn, then it's even better because Horn is just a better Spike)
Wyllow is a rank 6 prefix that gives a max roll of +12max. It personalizes the item and causes -70sp and +100% repair cost.

Spike is a rank 5 (Same as horn) Suffix that gives +10max and +10str with +10% repair cost.


2h holds Demi Lich and Alligator.
Demi LIch is rank 8, +20max dmg Prefix that also takes -100hp.
Alligator is a +29 max suffix, rank 7, that takes -5def, -40hp, and adds 50% repair cost.


The combined effects are +22max, -70sp, +10str for 1h.
The combined effects are +49max, -140hp, -5def for 2h.

So, let's throw these things down. Because we already know that the normal attack will blow everything out of the water, let's not waste time calculating that.

Because the base str is 50 and is now changed to +20, we have 70str = 28base max dmg.

67+18+20+22 = 28 + 127 + 127 = 282. That's 1410smash and 705wm with maxed glad dual.

120+18+20+49+20=227. That's 1362smash and 567wm with maxed dragon fang enchanted.

Even with all the help, smash still needs that extra STR dmg to pull through. If we increased things to 100base str, we'd see that 2h smash pulls ahead much better.

But boy oh boy. Let me slap this even harder. Introducing, one of the most broken weapons in all of current times. The Battle sward!

See, the battle sword is easy as piss to obtain, and can even be smithed for slightly more damage.

The maxed Battle sword has the following stats.

36-54dmg, +70str +75luck +5hp +5sp -40dex (because let's max everything) TWO of these alone is +30% crit rate. BUT, let's ignore EVERYTHING but the str.

Fun fact before we continue. This is the ONLY 1h sword to beat 35str in it's artisan. It is also one of TWO swords to reach +70str. The other being the dragon fang.

Let's throw this baby into the formula and watch the damage SKYROCKET. Remember, our base is 50, but now we have +140 and another +20 from the enchants. = 210str = 84base max dmg.

54 + 18 + 20 +22 =114. 84 + 144 + 144 = 312. That's 1560smash dmg and 780wm dmg. Jesus, fucking, Christ.
Fun fact, the War Sword can be store bought in many locations, and at it's max, beats a Falcata by 10max dmg. At it's NOT max, loses by only 12 dmg. Lovely how a peaca int sword doesn't even win against it and when it does, by very little.

Now, are these all using MAX settings? Yes. They are a possibility, therefore they are used. They are used in FAVOR OF BOTH, Dual and 2h. Why did I compare dual and 2h? Before dual came out, 2h was the heavy hitting choice that had the downside of lacking in defense. Now dual does that too, but better. Loads better. "But special upgrades!" Listen here, I'm not going to calc that just to show you it STILL beats it, if not HELPS it beat it harder. BOTH R and S ultimately favor dual over 2h, despite trying to give 2h better upgrades. Now can it.

Why am I bringing this up? Because someone has to. Content after dual came out heavily favored speedy gameplay and finishing content asap for max rewards. Shadow missions favor killing AS FAST AS YOU CAN. Everything does really, but more so missions as they are rock solid grounded in location. Even the more open Tail missions are more grounded in structure than a dungeon.

Why point this out? This is the reason we didn't care about this overly powerful crap being shoved at us in the past. We only cared about power creep of new skill sets when they were built to help clear things asap flat out. We already had our fast way to clear stuff, anything more that could overshadow it? Fuck that, this game doesn't need that. That's dumb.

Why is THIS okay? Why do people DEFEND this? Because they spend time on it like everyone else and don't want what they've done to be overshadowed by something else or taken away from them. Honestly, aside from the battle swords COMPLETELY breaking this, dual is fine. It just needs some changes to make it less insanely powerful.

How do we fix this? Can this even be fixed? Even if you cap both weapons by 50% of THEIR dmg (not str dmg), by 100str, they jump ahead +150-400dmg, depending on the skill used, while just at 50 they were all in the same ballpark.

Can we somehow fix this in a way that doesn't result in dual being overshadowed instead?i'm up to hear what EVERYONE has to say on how to fix this.

Treat this like it's both G1 and G1 times and have at it guys!

-This update, as the name and hints suggest, takes place in Cor. Treat this like g1! Talk to people, and I mean TALK to them! It's simple to get started!

-Make sure quest info matches what you're doing!

-Again, talk to people who might match this!

-Pay attention to the quest, it'll help you figure out where to go.
*Whoa, what's this?! Shhh, don't tell anyone how cool this is! Just plan ahead, talk to each other, and team work kiddos!
*Not everyone who joins needs to be at this point.

-Yo, this is what old blaze quest felt like!

-This is simple, and it tells you word for word where to go and what to do. Do it.

If at any point you get stuck and cannot move, CC to fix.

-Continue to get to know people. Again, treat this like G1 baby ;p

-The next steps are all the same and are told to you directly.

You did this to yourself.

-Dungeon "SM" quests. These are just small quests for each dungeon, given to the players upon entering a dungeon. They are completed once the dungeon is left via the goddess statue at the end. I think, being forced onto the player, there shouldn't be a problem with already having a shadow mission already. EXP rewards only.
* These also shouldn't get in the way of PQs, as shadow missions don't ever need to be 'set' as the active party quest, at least from what I was able to test.

-Patrolling mobs. This idea is both for dungeons (mainly) and shadow missions. Just a few mobs that patrol areas of a dungeon or SM. Something to make them feel more 'alive' and less like these...stale boxes with halls.

-'Higher' ground. This is something I don't think is doable at all without massive jank, or at all in general. But the idea is raised ground in dungeons or missions. Nothing more to say about that. (I know this is a 2d game with fake 3d, but I'm pretty sure you get what I mean if you've played the game for more than a few minutes)

-Shorter halls in most dungeons/new dungeons. Halls have no reason to exist while being extreamly long. No dungeon makes good use of them when they are used either. They're just a long stretch of walking that everyone sees and says "I'm going to get on a mount and zoom down this hall and never look back." Even when there's something like Ore in Barrie in a hall, few will stop for it unless they need it, because nothing makes you want to. There's no mechanics or puzzles or optional stuff to do with anything down a hall aside from 'meh' end chests (less meh in new dungeons) in the higher difficulty dungeons. I honestly don't know WHAT to do, but SOMETHING needs to be done.

-Herb Spawns. Higher tier dungeons have no business spamming 3x base herb plots. I know the herb rooms are all premade, so remove these damn things if possible. There base herb plots in Tir, Dunby, Gra-..Gar.....Hill along the path to Bangor, and god knows where else that I haven't checked. Base level dungeons are fine to have them, but jesus hell you should not be able to step into an adv dungeon or peaca basic, looking to train herbalism to be greeted with 3x base herb spawn.

-Nekkojima dungeon mechanic. I feel some custom dungeons could use this mechanic well. It's fun in Nekko until you realize how easy it is to speed through and that the entire dungeon uses the exact same single spawn choice...

-More mechanics like that of the Necromancer in Cleanse the Graveyard. His entire thing is that you cannot kill him until you complete a part of the mission. Bosses that have stages like this would be really neat. I know the new major boss has stuff like this and it's really damn cool.

-Dungeon and SM traps. Forget the terrible Ice Mines that are both always in the same location, and extreamly annoying to play with. We could see some real neat traps in dungeons. A webbed area that spawns spiders when stepped on, or a mimic orb that when hit, hits you back and locks the room, meaning you could have skipped it if you had known. A premade room with markings similar to the ones on Longa floor to point you towards the right option of a puzzel but if you don't pay attention you instead get hurt. (No, really, the longa eyes on the floor are so under used...)

-More mobs that fight each other. Not everything is controlled by the formors, so why don't more animals and monsters fight each other/formor controlled mobs? Could easily make rooms hectic and fun.

-Branching paths and choices to how you complete a dungeon or mission. I can really only see this doable with missions because I don't know if you could even really change a dungeon to be like this with how they're generated. Things like picking path A over path B, knowing that one leads to less mobs but stronger mobs, and the other leads to less mobs but more traps. Things like that.

-Party quest board inside every old dungeon lobby. This one speaks for itself, but also add some new PQs. Could even be gathering style PQs with newer dungeons. "Collect 25 x wood type from the trees within this dungeon." (really dumb example but you get it). "Fish up 5 xcm or larger xfish within this dungeon so I can make a grand feast." Heck, some of those in the field would be neat too.

-'Continue' dungeons. A rare pass that doesn't expire. Runs you through every version of said dungeon, but with shorter amount of floors and rooms. The later floors however, are much larger. I think this is doable thanks to how you guys have been able to do new dungeons with more than one end reward and boss.

-Sorry, this one is more of a flat idea to throw at you guys-
-A fishing contest style SM (event?). Requires ranks of fishing instead of total levels to go into each version. Each version then asking for a fish, only fishable from the SM. You'd only be able to get the fish of the correct size range by active fishing due to the afk penalty or just having things spawn when you fish anything up that actually try to fight you. (if that's the case, lower the fishing rank req and keep the total level req). It also requires a full party of 3 or 4? Fish cannot be brought out of the SM. Rewards are not from actually fishing but from finishing the event. Thus less/no afk BS.

-A mix of both a idea to throw at you guys and a content idea-
-Animal only Dungeons. Dungeons that give a high amount of exp per mob, but can only be played as a pet. Passes are completely tradable and a version for almost every dungeon..? As for content idea, special rooms in dungeons that only people playing as pets can enter? (Level restriction for HM dungeons removed if playing as a pet?)

-Using ADV heavy mobs correctly. This is a neat idea, making some ADV heavy mobs that either don't move, or move REALLY slowly, and are more of a gimmick for the dungeon. An example here off the top of my head would be egg sacs in Alby. They do not move, don't agro, but when players are in range, will eventually spawn Spiderlings to rush down the players until destroyed (spawning a max number at a time with a long cooldown) They don't fight back, but you beat the tar out of them to get rid of them asap. For barri advance, explosive barrels. They don't move when hit, but will explode after a while, bonus points if anything at all can hit them, foe or ally.

-Mobs to represent swarms. Dumb example off the top of my head from a convo yesterday, a swarm of bees. Low hp, very high protection, to simulate trying to hit a tiny ass bee. Almost no stun on their attacks, and one of those AIs that rushes in, hits a few times, then dips, alongside multi agro to just be there to try and mess you up while fighting other mobs.

-Mobs that regen health faster. No gimmick rooms of them vanishing and slowing things down, just mobs that regen really fast so wound is important, for once.

-Less 'trash' mobs. I don't understand why a dungeon needs 'trash' mobs. Sure they're 'trash' on their own, but why not make them a real threat in some form when coupled with other mobs? They can do almost no damage, but similar to the swarm idea, say for rats, they could do very very low damage but 100% wound and their stun be almost removed completely. Hit you a few times, run away. Couple them with other mobs and now you have someone to interrupt you if you just ignore them, or someone to slowly tare at your max health pool down with wound.