Authentic Old-School Mabinogi Experience
Posted at 03-10-17, 09:52 pm Link | #21
The point is that some people like to play optimally but don't like the optimal way to play to be fast or easy. When you make the optimal way to play be fast and easy, those same players will still be playing just as optimally, but they won't be enjoying the game. Yeah, you can add "options" for stuff like that. You could also add the option for any player to spawn any item they want and automatically advance their skills to max rank, but keep the normal way to play still intact for those who don't want to do that. Do you think that would be a fun environment to play in?
You're going GM level which is ridiculous.
I've also said that the pots and premium stuff should have a coin cost just like any other cash item they currently have. So one would actually need to "work" for those as well.
The point is that some people like to play optimally but don't like the optimal way to play to be fast or easy. When you make the optimal way to play be fast and easy, those same players will still be playing just as optimally, but they won't be enjoying the game. Yeah, you can add "options" for stuff like that. You could also add the option for any player to spawn any item they want and automatically advance their skills to max rank, but keep the normal way to play still intact for those who don't want to do that. Do you think that would be a fun environment to play in?
You're going GM level which is ridiculous.
I've also said that the pots and premium stuff should have a coin cost just like any other cash item they currently have. So one would actually need to "work" for those as well.
So you're proving my point.
You don't want to take it slow, you want to play on the servers optimal play-style and values.
But then again, people who push their agenda and say that "2x is too high, people should take their time with the game" while still play at an optimal run are either hypocrites or chronic liars.
Posted at 03-10-17, 10:03 pm Link | #23
Posts: 238There won't ever be a wipe. We would be throwing away over 20,000 hours of progress made by players. There is absolutely no way it would go over well.
The rates are not set in stone and may change at some point, but if they do, we aren't going to mess with any progress that was already made at higher rates.
The rates are not set in stone and may change at some point, but if they do, we aren't going to mess with any progress that was already made at higher rates.
Posted at 03-10-17, 10:09 pm Link | #24
1x / 2x / 3x /4x
Whatever the rate, you are still on the same play field as any other player.
There's inflation on any rate the server might take. That's market rule, nothing can be done there. Prices are messed up in the base game to begin with, would take a bit of time to adjust those.
I'd rather worry about the gold glitches that currently happen. Getting 500k in a few mins won't really help any market rate.
I think bound options like the Red Coins are things to stabilize the market. Get higher value items/pets etc for your own hard work instead of buying them from other players for gold. That way your own activity and effort will actually reflect in the items one may gain.
Whatever the rate, you are still on the same play field as any other player.
There's inflation on any rate the server might take. That's market rule, nothing can be done there. Prices are messed up in the base game to begin with, would take a bit of time to adjust those.
I'd rather worry about the gold glitches that currently happen. Getting 500k in a few mins won't really help any market rate.
I think bound options like the Red Coins are things to stabilize the market. Get higher value items/pets etc for your own hard work instead of buying them from other players for gold. That way your own activity and effort will actually reflect in the items one may gain.
Posted at 03-10-17, 10:13 pm Link | #25
There won't ever be a wipe. We would be throwing away over 20,000 hours of progress made by players. There is absolutely no way it would go over well.
The rates are not set in stone and may change at some point, but if they do, we aren't going to mess with any progress that was already made at higher rates.
The rates are not set in stone and may change at some point, but if they do, we aren't going to mess with any progress that was already made at higher rates.
20k hours?
Isn't the server up for like a month?
Even if one would play 24/7, they'd have 720h tops.
Well, Hosts call anyway. I don't mind either. Even late wipes I wouldn't mind if it fixes bugs and dupes tbh.
Posted at 03-10-17, 10:39 pm Link | #26
20k hours?
Isn't the server up for like a month?
Even if one would play 24/7, they'd have 720h tops.
Isn't the server up for like a month?
Even if one would play 24/7, they'd have 720h tops.
Posted at 03-10-17, 10:53 pm Link | #27
20k hours?
Isn't the server up for like a month?
Even if one would play 24/7, they'd have 720h tops.
Isn't the server up for like a month?
Even if one would play 24/7, they'd have 720h tops.
But it works for me. Just make human alts, get giant/elven friends and top up on 15mil while you can boiz.
Posted at 03-10-17, 11:44 pm Link | #28
20k hours?
Isn't the server up for like a month?
Even if one would play 24/7, they'd have 720h tops.
Isn't the server up for like a month?
Even if one would play 24/7, they'd have 720h tops.
But it works for me. Just make human alts, get giant/elven friends and top up on 15mil while you can boiz.
Be found exploiting in any way and then get banned too?
Think people didn't understood the message the Admins/Game Masters are trying to put out, indeed they wont wipe, but if you are found hacking/exploiting/dupping in a way that wasn't intended(ala, Synt) I could see bans being handed out due to it.
_________________________
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow.
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Posted at 03-10-17, 11:56 pm Link | #29
They should leave the game the same. Plus it's not like people are getting to level 70 in 10 mins with this 2x training thing.
Posted at 03-11-17, 12:38 am Link | #30
They should leave the game the same. Plus it's not like people are getting to level 70 in 10 mins with this 2x training thing.
There's also the 2 week rebirth limit. (which will eventually lead to old players being Godly while new ones have to wait months to get on the same level, just like global in a way)
Just to clarify the slow vs fast grind conundrum that is for some reason a conundrum.
The enjoyment that comes from having a slower grind is that once you've made it, it's an achievement that you can be proud of. When people know you have r1 in a particularly hard to rank skill, they will be impressed. When people know you have gotten the master title for that skill, it's even more impressive.
A faster grind will let players get to r1 more easily, which makes it (at the very least feel like) less of an achievement. Not as much effort was put in compared to the slower grind variation, hence it is not as impressive.
Having the option to go fast in a normally slow grind environment doesn't solve that issue, either. At least, not without a way of recognizing that someone did not use the fast grinding option. If you boast about having mastered a grindy skill without using that skill training potion or whatever, you can boast all you want but people will likely not believe you. The fact that there is no intrinsic reward for going the more difficult route, plus the fact that you would have no proof to show you went the more difficult route, makes the more difficult route (at least for some) not enjoyable or worth it.
Edit: I used skill ranks as an example, but this sort of mentality can apply to things like total level or whatever else as well.
The enjoyment that comes from having a slower grind is that once you've made it, it's an achievement that you can be proud of. When people know you have r1 in a particularly hard to rank skill, they will be impressed. When people know you have gotten the master title for that skill, it's even more impressive.
A faster grind will let players get to r1 more easily, which makes it (at the very least feel like) less of an achievement. Not as much effort was put in compared to the slower grind variation, hence it is not as impressive.
Having the option to go fast in a normally slow grind environment doesn't solve that issue, either. At least, not without a way of recognizing that someone did not use the fast grinding option. If you boast about having mastered a grindy skill without using that skill training potion or whatever, you can boast all you want but people will likely not believe you. The fact that there is no intrinsic reward for going the more difficult route, plus the fact that you would have no proof to show you went the more difficult route, makes the more difficult route (at least for some) not enjoyable or worth it.
Edit: I used skill ranks as an example, but this sort of mentality can apply to things like total level or whatever else as well.
Posted at 03-11-17, 02:03 am Link | #32
Just to clarify the slow vs fast grind conundrum that is for some reason a conundrum.
The enjoyment that comes from having a slower grind is that once you've made it, it's an achievement that you can be proud of. When people know you have r1 in a particularly hard to rank skill, they will be impressed. When people know you have gotten the master title for that skill, it's even more impressive.
A faster grind will let players get to r1 more easily, which makes it (at the very least feel like) less of an achievement. Not as much effort was put in compared to the slower grind variation, hence it is not as impressive.
Having the option to go fast in a normally slow grind environment doesn't solve that issue, either. At least, not without a way of recognizing that someone did not use the fast grinding option. If you boast about having mastered a grindy skill without using that skill training potion or whatever, you can boast all you want but people will likely not believe you. The fact that there is no intrinsic reward for going the more difficult route, plus the fact that you would have no proof to show you went the more difficult route, makes the more difficult route (at least for some) not enjoyable or worth it.
Edit: I used skill ranks as an example, but this sort of mentality can apply to things like total level or whatever else as well.
The enjoyment that comes from having a slower grind is that once you've made it, it's an achievement that you can be proud of. When people know you have r1 in a particularly hard to rank skill, they will be impressed. When people know you have gotten the master title for that skill, it's even more impressive.
A faster grind will let players get to r1 more easily, which makes it (at the very least feel like) less of an achievement. Not as much effort was put in compared to the slower grind variation, hence it is not as impressive.
Having the option to go fast in a normally slow grind environment doesn't solve that issue, either. At least, not without a way of recognizing that someone did not use the fast grinding option. If you boast about having mastered a grindy skill without using that skill training potion or whatever, you can boast all you want but people will likely not believe you. The fact that there is no intrinsic reward for going the more difficult route, plus the fact that you would have no proof to show you went the more difficult route, makes the more difficult route (at least for some) not enjoyable or worth it.
Edit: I used skill ranks as an example, but this sort of mentality can apply to things like total level or whatever else as well.
But then again, nobody cares about what someone else has achieved. I just want to see my skills at r1 then do RP and whatnot. I don't want to remember old Mabi.
Not to mention that this server will last for who knows how long.
Posted at 03-11-17, 03:28 am Link | #33
Just to clarify the slow vs fast grind conundrum that is for some reason a conundrum.
The enjoyment that comes from having a slower grind is that once you've made it, it's an achievement that you can be proud of. When people know you have r1 in a particularly hard to rank skill, they will be impressed. When people know you have gotten the master title for that skill, it's even more impressive.
A faster grind will let players get to r1 more easily, which makes it (at the very least feel like) less of an achievement. Not as much effort was put in compared to the slower grind variation, hence it is not as impressive.
The enjoyment that comes from having a slower grind is that once you've made it, it's an achievement that you can be proud of. When people know you have r1 in a particularly hard to rank skill, they will be impressed. When people know you have gotten the master title for that skill, it's even more impressive.
A faster grind will let players get to r1 more easily, which makes it (at the very least feel like) less of an achievement. Not as much effort was put in compared to the slower grind variation, hence it is not as impressive.
This explains it perfectly, but the main flaw is that tedium isn't achievement on any level.
Oh, you started breakdancing inside a clump of slow moving weaklings 500 times instead of 250? Wow man, you should get a medal!
I can't honestly think of any skill rank (or level climb, while we're at it) that isn't entirely composed of tedious busywork, besides the book ranks. The idea of feeling a positive sense of achievement from sitting in a ditch and pressing 5, or failing to gather materials, for 4 hours at a time, is astoundingly backwards to me. Wouldn't it be more rewarding to advance your mastery of a skill by actually doing something of note, if you're supposed to be notable for it? The skills that deal with books do this brilliantly, since you would normally only get those through an actual achievement of some sort.
You've already got the grinding aspect down with gaining levels and gathering up AP, so choosing not to defend "kill 10 wolves" as a progression mechanic honestly shouldn't be a hard decision here.
Posted at 03-11-17, 04:01 am Link | #34
This explains it perfectly, but the main flaw is that tedium isn't achievement on any level.
Oh, you started breakdancing inside a clump of slow moving weaklings 500 times instead of 250? Wow man, you should get a medal!
I can't honestly think of any skill rank (or level climb, while we're at it) that isn't entirely composed of tedious busywork, besides the book ranks. The idea of feeling a positive sense of achievement from sitting in a ditch and pressing 5, or failing to gather materials, for 4 hours at a time, is astoundingly backwards to me. Wouldn't it be more rewarding to advance your mastery of a skill by actually doing something of note, if you're supposed to be notable for it? The skills that deal with books do this brilliantly, since you would normally only get those through an actual achievement of some sort.
You've already got the grinding aspect down with gaining levels and gathering up AP, so choosing not to defend "kill 10 wolves" as a progression mechanic honestly shouldn't be a hard decision here.
^ Pretty much this.
Sitting in a place pressing the same key thousands of times is some serious Chinese level grind fetish.
Posted at 03-11-17, 09:08 am Link | #35
No wipe plz. I also don't really want to spend hours/days training things either, that's the very reason I threw money at mabi live. I spent enough of my time in mabi live grinding for stuff and things and skills just to see it be horribly irrelevant. I would much prefer to see content that challenges the skills of a player, rather than be some meat grinder dull mission that we do over-and-over. Gold or item dupes/exploits should be dealt with, obviously, due to the artificial imbalance it will bring. I'm dissatisfied with the economy as a whole, but that being directly related to the community, can't really do much about it as a casual player, since I'm not going to sink hours beyond hours just to influence a virtual economy. Games are meant to be relaxing and fun, I can understand a bit of a grind to get stronger. In essence;
Rates: I'd say keep them the same.
Gacha: Remove end-game content, make it fashionogi if you want, but make fashionogi items untradeable. Seeing items that are ridiculously irrelevant be 40m makes me shake my head.
Content: Better AI. The fact monsters don't have fast targeting Is too easily abused as a mechanic. If you learn how, make it a skill related to stealth. Elf hide might actually be useful, then.
My opinions, certainly not the best, but that's my two cents.
Rates: I'd say keep them the same.
Gacha: Remove end-game content, make it fashionogi if you want, but make fashionogi items untradeable. Seeing items that are ridiculously irrelevant be 40m makes me shake my head.
Content: Better AI. The fact monsters don't have fast targeting Is too easily abused as a mechanic. If you learn how, make it a skill related to stealth. Elf hide might actually be useful, then.
My opinions, certainly not the best, but that's my two cents.
Posted at 03-11-17, 12:33 pm Link | #36
The issue with using books to train, is that if you transfer it to skills that involved combat, such as windmill, players can go directly for the books without even needing to use the skill. I believe cooking did this right in live mabi, in that you needed books but you required training to go along with it. Then you hit the issue of balancing, and the annoyance of having to hunt down the books, especially in the cases of secret shops.
It'd help the life skills, to improve what's produced from them now, such as blacksmithing gets a more serious boost from its equipment, preferably lower stat equipment gets a more serious boost to make it keep up with higher stat equipment, so that players don't feel like they should use one specific weapon their whole game life. Some skills like weaving... i really don't know what to do with that.
But combat skills... i'll probably complain about most, cuz they're honestly not that bad. It's a one time tradeoff, a bit of effort in combat which is what you're going to spend most your game time doing when you're not standing around talking. So learn how to effectively use the skill, and the training isn't a problem most the time, and even when it is it's a one time tradeoff. Train it, then it's done, you never have issues with it again. It's not like PTJs where if you don't do so many within a certain duration, it loses counts and thus rewards. The benefits are permanent unless you do a reset.
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It'd help the life skills, to improve what's produced from them now, such as blacksmithing gets a more serious boost from its equipment, preferably lower stat equipment gets a more serious boost to make it keep up with higher stat equipment, so that players don't feel like they should use one specific weapon their whole game life. Some skills like weaving... i really don't know what to do with that.
But combat skills... i'll probably complain about most, cuz they're honestly not that bad. It's a one time tradeoff, a bit of effort in combat which is what you're going to spend most your game time doing when you're not standing around talking. So learn how to effectively use the skill, and the training isn't a problem most the time, and even when it is it's a one time tradeoff. Train it, then it's done, you never have issues with it again. It's not like PTJs where if you don't do so many within a certain duration, it loses counts and thus rewards. The benefits are permanent unless you do a reset.
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Discord: Tonkatunk#7079
https://github.com/Tonkatunk/Mabi-Pro-Lazyfae-Mods
Posted at 03-11-17, 09:17 pm Link | #37
I'd also be in favor of books for every skill. I'm actually having fun when trying to grind for a book.
Spamming skills with certain conditions always seemed stupid to me.
Either just keep it as spam or skill book it. The CP system is what rather makes leveling skills annoying.
Spamming skills with certain conditions always seemed stupid to me.
Either just keep it as spam or skill book it. The CP system is what rather makes leveling skills annoying.
Posted at 03-11-17, 09:41 pm Link | #38
I'd also be in favor of books for every skill. I'm actually having fun when trying to grind for a book.
Spamming skills with certain conditions always seemed stupid to me.
Either just keep it as spam or skill book it. The CP system is what rather makes leveling skills annoying.
Spamming skills with certain conditions always seemed stupid to me.
Either just keep it as spam or skill book it. The CP system is what rather makes leveling skills annoying.
I'd say a mix of both in certain skills, Sword Mastery/Blunt Mastery/etc should be the more you use the more it ranks on my opinion, WM could have some tweaks I think? I mean for us that played before we already go with the mindset to get WM to rank 1 and Refining too.
But I do understand that some people hate to rank those skills....because its grindy.
_________________________
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow.
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
The more knowledge you get, the more questions you ask. The smarter you get, the more you realize that everything can be possible.
Posted at 03-11-17, 11:42 pm Link | #39
Oh god... refining. That skill shouldn't exist.
Posted at 03-12-17, 12:07 am Link | #40
Oh god... refining. That skill shouldn't exist.
Currently working on that, just takes a few days of serious grind, watch some movies or something while you do it.
Also is a good excuse to train metallurgy and get a few ranks on metal conversion, if you do it before 100. You'll probably have to skill reset at some point, to get ap back from conversion though, at least i did, so i'd suggest keeping an eye on your ranks to do it efficiently and not lose out on much training xp.
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https://github.com/Tonkatunk/Mabi-Pro-Lazyfae-Mods
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