MabiPro: The Authentic Old-School Mabinogi Experience

Yeah I also don't think long term this would work. Assuming you could get any type of AoE pets and you're allowed 2 of them per account the problem Lazyfae acknowledged would be even more of an issue. In many ways that'd make restrictions redundant, as it's not something you'd feel much in large parties and it's not really something you'd feel much solo either.

Saying that, this is why Excelsian specifically stated only one AoE pet per account. And that's not one of each kind of pet. Just one AoE pet with either basic hit stun or basic knockback. That way you limit the problems as that's a system that can't be abused by multiple pet spamming (and it would be abused if that was introduced) AND no broken AoE effects (bone dragon debuff for example) would be included. So just to be clear, not one flame horse, one dragon, and so on just ONE AoE pet. Which pet this would be and what effect (basic hit stun or knockback NOTHING ELSE) would also be something that would have to be discussed.

I also agree that Lazyfae points out some of the issues with this idea and I agree that the inclusion of 1 AoE pet in the space of large parties will bring its own problems. Personally, I don't think the cons of that are too bad to not include them at all, but I can understand why for some that is enough of a reason to think even one per account is too much. Which is why I think a poll that is done again but also includes the possibility of a restriction would be an interesting one to run. Because if the choices available to me were "all AoE pets" Vs "no AoE pets" I'd choose none. But if the poll included an option like this that said "restricted 1 AoE pet per account" that adds entirely new scenarios to the poll and it would be very interesting to see what the results of that would be.

I don't see the problem tbh. It's a private server, there's the option to test things out and if it doesn't work, there's always the option to revert back. A private server is meant to be 'fun', and part of that fun is to be able to do stuff you otherwise couldn't. We'll never have enough people to run the hardest stuff and most people quit before they can get to that point because of the sole reason that it is a private server and not an official thing. I'm sure everyone of us have cheesed some part of the game to some degree, wether it be the live version or this one.

I'd say put them in, see how it goes. If people want to cheese content by playing dead and wming with pets, let them. It'll just take them ages as pets does nowhere close to the amount of damage a player would. And then see if it were to be super OP and viable in every situation, that's where its time for the gms to step in and fix their problem, but at the moment, it doesn't seem like it's a big issue, just a case of 'How much do I value my time?'.

AOE is for lazy people. I vote no.

In the end, is there any counter argument about introducing these pets without the AoE effect ?
The original idea to implement them is to have access to stylish pets, right ? No one asked for them specifically for the AoE effect (or at least I don't think anyone did).

So if any other solution than removing the AoE effect do have one or several counter arguments, it would be best to go with the only solution everyone would be ok with.

(on a personal note, I never played with AoE pets nor did I see any in action while playing so I can't really judge the usefulness/game breaking potential)

My whole point is that we do not need the AoE on summon from the pets, regardless of what type it is, content can be cleared without it.

On the same note, I wouldn't mind to see ANY pet implement if they, again had base abilities like any other regular pet(on the Flame Horse heck, I wouldn't mind at all the speed boost they have too)

Content can be cleared without Smash or Counter too, sure, it'd take a bit longer but you can just get by with windmilling instead (and windmill can be used to replace counter in a variety of ways, in case someone actually wants to use counter). It doesn't mean we should remove either of them since that would limit the options available, and neither does it mean we can't add additional things as long as they are restricted so they don't take over the game to a point where they are what defines how combat goes (which one could say windmill already does to a pretty big extent for melee combat).

I think this could serve as an additional tool to help in combat. If it is restricted I personally don't think it will define combat like it does in live, making it a fine addition. I think at this point it is down to personal opinion and whether people want more options in combat at all, and if so, what kind of options (that can actually be implemented).

I agree, having a full party just spamming windmill could get you through most if not all dungeons already and that doesnt mean it needs to be removed and it sure doesnt mean its breaking the game. Restricting pets to 2 of each should be fine. We're already missing a lot of content from the game just cause it might break the game, we shouldnt be too scared about what to add or what to not add to avoid breaking the game, because if we keep doing that, we'll end up with a game thats balanced but also empty, adding content is important so the game doesnt become boring after a while. We are already doing great by excluding reforges from this server.

In the end its about how people wanna play the game, if they take advantage of the AoE pets and they're running dungeons so easy, then if the problem is them getting many drops from certain dungeon, maybe restricting how many times you can run a certain dungeon could be an option or just removing the unrestricted pass from shop or at least making the price way higher

My thoughts exactly, simply put, the AoE abilities are cheap and allow for cheap combat. Regardless of the amount of the AoE pets allowed, it's still allowing cheap content into the game.

I also think the pets look like flashy garbage trash so I don't think they should be added regardless of the AoE ability or not. :---DDDD

I don't think anyone who feels the need to crap on the enjoyment of others needs to be welcome in this discussion. The questions are "AoE vs. no AoE" and "quantity limitations vs. none." These are important balance questions, they do not exist pass judgement on what pets people enjoy, they exist to make sure the game doesn't become cheapened or too easy. Anything else is being the fun police, and IMO that attitude is not welcome in a freeform game like Mabinogi.

To be completely honest, I dont care about AoE effects, what I care is about content, content is important so we can have reasons to keep playing the game but like I said before, we're already missing a lot of stuff that was taken out of this version of the game in order to make it ''balanced'', we already avoided many of the things that could make game too easy, but that doesnt mean we need to avoid every single thing that may be dangerous of making the game easier, if we do that, then we're certainly playing the wrong game cause sadly... no matter how much we remove or dont add, we'll still be missing a big part of the game's content.

However.. back to the AoE pets problem... I dont know if this can be done but maybe if devs could edit the effects so it wont be as ''potent'' or just change the effects the pet gives when summoned and change the effects to something that wont affect combat that much?

Thats just my opinion of course, so if anyone disagree thats totally fine, if more people think AoE effects should be removed completely or not have the AoE pet at all, that fine too ^^

So your solution to potential abuse of aoe pets if they get implemented, is to basically restrict gameplay in certain areas and/or make access to them more difficult? I mean, this is a prime example of what players who want to actually fight, fear hearing in the future should an attempt to balance an issue such as this. Players with both stats and the skill level to actually earn their way through these dungeons, would be greatly restricted at that point. And people who run dungeons for drops/enchants will be none too pleased at this either.

I'm still against aoe pets, period. If they do get implemented though, there should never be a conversation on how to better balance the game to deal with the potential abuse of them, unless the solution is just to remove their aoe effect or make any mobs affected by it become entirely immune to all other aoe pets for say 3 mins. If you change honest to god gameplay, to balance the pets, you can be hurting the game. If you want aoe pets, i would encourage you to come up with more creative ideas that won't have much if any impact, on regular gameplay.
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Discord: Tonkatunk#7079
https://github.com/Tonkatunk/Mabi-Pro-Lazyfae-Mods

this game is easy enough without adding the cashgrab pets lol

HMMMMMMMMMMM. Lets start with a fun fact, when I first started playing this private server I did not mind that AoE pets were not implemented. But when I first started our community was ALOT bigger and healthier, we had some strong players that had proper gear and skills ranked. Fast forward to the current state of the private server, most of the highest level players quit or just not as active as they use to be. Because of that I feel like I'm just stuck, since those endgame dungeons I would like to run are not really an option since most of the community is undergeared or underlevel. The addition of AoE pets would solve that problem a little, but of course would not solve the bigger problem which would be lack of *geared active* players we have. I see people keep mentioning how broken clouds and bone dragons are, but seem to forget when AoE pets first came out they were not healing or doing 500+ AoE damage and reducing mobs protection. The most broken AoE pet back then was Ice dragon since you could just freeze everything constantly and I wouldn't mind compromising there. If you check the New Pet menu on the character screen you will find the AoE pets I would like to be added to the game. The summon effect for those pets does not do any significant damage, for those who argue that one could just hide/play dead and spam them for every room. Another reason it seem some people are against AoE pets being added is because they seem to think they allow you to instantly be able to solo content. Which is not true at all... You cannot go into peaca int with shit gear, low rank skills and no knowledge of how the mobs react expecting to solo. Will AoE pet make a dungeon such as peaca int less painful if you don't have other players that are able to carry their weight in there? Yes, But what other option do we have exactly. To those that think AoE pets will reduce party play even more, I would rather have geared players beside me any day then a few pets that would make a dungeon do-able but still clear slow as fuck.



^ This basially sums up why i feel they are needed.

Well, that was only an option, but editing the effects of the pets is still a better idea if possible to do it. Of course if people dont want AoE effects and dont care about missing content, I guess not having the pets is fine too. If we could have both, it'll be great but I guess cant have it all and we need to decide if we want a really strict balanced game or more pets and more content. I would vote for a not so strictly balanced game so we can get more content and have a fun mabi, after all.. what matters the most is how enjoyable the game is, the experience you have playing it.

And there's the conundrum. What is fun for you, is not necessarily fun for me. For example, i know people who have fun playing games with invincibility cheats. I don't like that, i feel it cheapens the game and takes away from the gameplay. To me, some of the stuff people define as more fun, isn't just quality of life updates, but combat changes in some form, that make the game easier.

I'd rather an honestly more challenging game, that down the line i can point and say 'yeah i did/earned that.' Look at phantasm dungeon on live. The dungeon itself isn't honestly that bad, so long as everyone has sand burst. Exception being the final boss room. She's cheap as crap cuz she heals and anyone who doesn't live next to the server has issues preventing it, rather ridiculous. Obtaining the passes is stupid, but that's not the same as the actual dungeon though. It requires teamwork/coordination, and going in prepared. To me, that's not the sole objective of the whole game but is the objective of one section of the game, for live anyway. And i'm totally fine with that and enjoyed running it if people actually listened and coordinated. I know most will flat out refuse to run anything that doesn't net them a profit though.

If you'd rather a more at home example, look at the wings request we had. It was put to the vote, and voted no. To me, it took absolutely nothing away from the game. I may at some point use wings, but generally speaking i never saw any that i felt suited my char so didn't touch them. I'm not building a style to suit wings, they'd either suit me or i could dye them to suit, otherwise i don't bother. It's all fashion to me though, and i put more interest into actual gameplay/combat.


So what is fun is going to vary for each individual, and as to why they play.
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Discord: Tonkatunk#7079
https://github.com/Tonkatunk/Mabi-Pro-Lazyfae-Mods

I dont see how AoE pets is equal to play with invincibility or cheats, I mean it has potential for it but just having the pets doesnt force the player to abuse them. Thats up for the player. However I know it can still become a problem if more and more people abuse from it. I dont like using cheats or mods to play and dont like easy things (not that this game is hard though, probably the hardest part of the game is the training of skills and even so, it just requires patience) And I mean, I dont mind not having AoE pets or not having the effects, as I said before, but of course having more content will be more enjoyable, but I'm fine with anything that is decided in the end.

But I've been thinking about it and I have another idea.. so please hear it everyone and tell me if its doable or if it still breaks the game.

Having more pets is good, right? and there are some people that mentioned wanting the AoE effects since they have trouble finding people to party with, yes? the problem is, we dont want AoE pets making things too easy by being spammed multiple AoE pets to clear dungeons? then how about this..

Is there a way to place the AoE pets in a different category from normal pets? if so, we can add another option to the NPC that sells pets, called something like ''Special Pets'' or something.. and on that option you get a list with all the AoE pets but you're restricted to own just 1 of these pet type, so every player will just get 1, if after a while you wanna get a different AoE pet, you can just delete your pet and buy a different one.. (unless someone comes with a better idea) but having just 1 AoE pet, even running a dungeon with full party and everyone owning 1 AoE pet, should be okay, right? or still game breaking? Like I said, I dont mind not having AoE pets, im just giving options for those who really want them, you know?

It is possible to limit the in this fashion.

May as well ask, is it possible to set a party restriction, to disable aoe pets, or at least their effect, while in a party? Not a permanent disable, mind you, but like where you can set party options such as quest, finish rule, or exp rule; can an option be added to disable the pet effects by party leader, until party's done?
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Discord: Tonkatunk#7079
https://github.com/Tonkatunk/Mabi-Pro-Lazyfae-Mods

I am against pets with AOE effects aswell, I'm fine with implenting them without that effect on them.


Ps:
Stop being obsessed to get AOE pets in the game. They are not part of the intended core gameplay.

Fruttie

this got me so tilted... trgggggrrrrr. majority of community is just full of beginner leveled plays, so i have no hope. sad that i have to slow down my gameplay because other was to casually play, mabi's solo aspect is what keep the community going. unlike a game like tera where you need to be in a top guild and well known to gear up. if you're playing mabi you dont need to rely on other for your progression .... muh tilted muh life muh sad muh trggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr